Foundry is shutting down in slow motion | Equity Podcast

This episode is sponsored by Morgan Stanley atwork visit Assessment to get your free transaction Readiness assessment Today hello and welcome back to equity a Podcast about the business of startups Where we unpack the numbers and the Nuance behind the headlines today is February 16th 2024 my name is Alex and I'm joined today by two of my long Running work besties in one corner we Have senior Tech runch reporter on the Fintech beat it's Maryann aabo marann hi Hi Alex how are you I had really good Donuts today so it's been a pretty good Day overall yeah I'm jealous yum well my Stomach does not agree because I need to Go for Iran but we also have Karine Levy With us Karine hey how are you I'm doing Very well thanks for having me on the Show again oh my gosh an absolute Pleasure this is just like all of our Various meetings we've had over the last Couple of years together just now in a Live recorded format so nothing bad will Happen whatsoever but the good news is We have the right people today for this Show because on the Pod today deals of The week are Rossa ultiverse and hippo Harvest a little bit of blockchain in There a little bit of robots even some Fintech it's going to be great then for The First theme we are discussing Venture capital's transitional moment

And why this year is going to look very Different in Venture Land than what we Have seen in years before and then we're Going to close off with what YC wants to See from startups today Maran though We're kicking off with Rosa which just Put together a very nice series C yeah So I wrote about Rosa this week and you Know I have to say as you all know I Generally cover fintech mostly just Fintech but this one kind of there's Some fintech involved because this is a Conversational geni company that serves Financial services companies and it was Interesting to me because first of all It's been around since 2016 you know They've been doing this for a while and The startup actually started out as an Open source platform for developers to Build chat Bots voice apps and other Services that would employ Conversational AI then a few years ago They decided to shift toward the Enterprise which seems like a was a very Smart move for the company they hired a Former Oracle executive Melissa Gordon As it CEO and now they're counting let's See two of the largest banks in the US As customer Two of the world's three top Banks American Express Deutsch Telecom so Their strategy seems to be paying off They said their AR doubled last year and Now what they're doing is they've

Developed infrastructure to give Developers at these large Enterprises The ability to build what they call Robust generative conversational AI Assistants that are more humanlike and Have more personal and meaningful Interactions with users so just to kind Of boil that down into like idiot terms For myself essentially in the world of Financial services a big chunker the Economy there's a lot of conversations And so what rasa is doing is building Kind of like tailored AI chat Tech to Help companies in that particular Niche Better interface with their customers Right so that when the customer is Having the interaction with the bot you Know what it's like you can usually tell Right away this is a bot right but Sometimes you actually kind of doubt it Because the bot's kind of talking to you In a way that feels more humanlike and That's what Rosa's goal is is to make it Feel really almost humanlike and RZA Again it's not building the chat Bots Direct ly it's giving these developers At these companies the infrastructure to Do it themselves and to kind of more Personalize and customize the chat so That they actually kind of have a way to Vet potential answers beforehand things Like that so something though that their Chatbot can do is if you ask it to Transfer money you know it can not their

Chatbot but a chatbot their technology Would help develop you know you could Transfer money check balances even reset A router in someone's house if they're Having an internet problem things like That so marann the first thing that I Thought of when I saw this watch I had Two main thoughts one seeing more Tailored AI work on a vertical basis Makes a lot of sense given that each Industry is different but then the Second thing was haven't we just talked About this a little bit with Sierra from Brett Taylor former co- CEO of Salesforce so I asked Raza about that And what the CTO told me that it's Different because they said Sierra is More of an agent whereas what razza is Doing is not building an agent it's more Of an llm powered chatbot what's so this Is when it gets a little dicey for me Because you said that the Raza Technology will allow them to create Things that lets people do things like Transfer money reset the router okay Isn't that kind of the same pitch that Sierra is making that these AI agents Will help take actions for the end user I think that you know the end result is The same but the way they get there is What he's saying is different okay That's what he's saying but one thing They do have in common is they both Claim to be addressing issues like

Hallucinations where a large language Model sometimes makes up an answer when It lacks the information to answer Accurately so that is something else They have in common yeah I mean that's What I was going to say was imagine Asking it to transfer money and it's Like hallucinating how much money you Have or where to transfer it like I Don't know how much I trust it yet but At the same time I also wonder how is This any different than the options that They give you right now so if you're Using a chatbot and it's just instead of You know naturally talking to it it's Like here are three options click this Button to transfer the money like how You know I wonder why this is any faster Or easier than just selecting it Yourself rather than having a chatbot do It well I haven't used it so I'm not Going to be able to speak firsthand but Apparently they just that they claim That the interactions are just the Developers are able to customize them a Lot more I guess accurately to what an Actual person within the company would Say so that again these are all their Their claims two quick as sides though That I have to point out before I forget Two things that I also found interesting About this company one PayPal Ventures Was an investor did I mention that they Just raised a $30 million series C I

Don't think I mentioned that I teed you Up with my intro of not saying the Dollar amount I'm like d a series C and Then you're like AI agents so I thought We were going to go backwards yeah I Forgot to mention that they raised $30 Million in a series CR round of funding And that was co-led by stepstone group And PayPal Ventures participation from Existing backers including andrees Excel And basis set Ventures so what I was Going to say they said their evaluations Up of course I don't know that what it Is cuz they wouldn't say and pitchbook Didn't say but it was PayPal Ventures First AI investment I thought that was Notable I was surprised that it was its First I would have thought that they had Invested in something else that was AI Related prior and another thing that's Totally unrelated to AI I really love The story of the CEO who was a former Paul wter who used Title 9 to compete With men before women could compete in The sport I just love that well that's a Awesome also pull volting is terrifying Because you take a large stick and then You fling your body into the air and Then you go wee gravity like like how is That a game or sport yeah it's cool it's Awesome I can't do it I'm not knocking It at all it just it feels kind of like A sport that we invented before we had Like cameras and like balls to kick

Around like hey I've got a stick I'm Going to go over that tree we skilled But scary says Teresa our producer I Agree with that right anyway so that There's a lot of different things Related to this company part of the Problem I think though is we're seeing So many startups you know using AI Claiming their AI power building AI Stuff it is getting harder and harder to Differentiate them and tell them apart So I can understand where you where you Would have those kind of questions well We need better definitions for AI agents Versus conversational AI Bots and I I Wonder if there's kind of these Distinctions without major differences Or if there are big differences and We're simply missing the point I think Probably in six months time we'll all Know the answer to that but right now it Still feels a bit nent not a fad though I don't think this AI business ever Everyone wants to save money on customer Support costs so expect more of this but A place where there might be a fad Karen Is apparently the world of AI and crypto Yeah so just this week there was a Company called Erse it's based in Singapore and they raised $4 million at $150 million valuation led by idg Capital which has invested in other Chinese Brands gaming Brands like tenson And zomi as well as crypto upstarts like

Coinbase and cir And what altiverse does is it Blends Ai And crypto gaming or blockchain gaming And so I think the fad is the crypto Gaming component but maybe also the AI Component so what it is it's an AI Powered platform for crypto game Production and Publishing so they Publish their own games but then you Like they can have other companies build Games on their platform and so they're Using llms that already exist like gbt 4 Llama and stable diffusion to Train In-game non-playable characters which I Think is maybe the best use case for AI That I have heard of within the Gaming Community yet and I will say that I'm a Gamer but not these types of games so I'm not quite sure about blockchain Gaming as a whole and yeah but you know A bunch of people are playing this they Have a mobile cricket game that has About 200 th000 unique active wallet Addresses across all of their games Right now the monthly active users are About 830,000 people most of the people Who are playing the Cricut game are non- Crypto users so the game uses something Called account abstraction which means That even people who aren't spun up on Crypto related things can play and then Get paid out but I think the main Component here is the AI features that They're trying to help introduce and

Trying to get others to use on their Platform H tell me More I'm a little skeptical of parts of This yeah and that's that's not to be Rude because I I do think that trying to Bridge different nent Technologies or Rapidly emerging Technologies is a cool Thing that could yield at the Intersection of them in this case Ai and Crypto something special I also agree That the use of modern AI tools like Llms inside of video games is super Awesome cuz then you could have more Than three dialogue options of course There's voice acting stuff to be Considered there but it's possible to do Cool things especially with text huge Fan and crypto gaming to me people like To speculate they like to trade they Like to invest okay cool it's just when You smush them together I get a little a Little weird so I was on the ultraverse Website and I was poking through their Material on Terminus which is a quote Decentralized virtual metaverse platform That's built on both the BNB chain so Bances chain and and Unreal Engine 5 and It just feels like a kind of like MMO RPG is thing with some crypto crap Slogged onto it and I just I don't want Nft Gallery in my game I want to be left Alone yeah and so that's when I just I Kind of struggle and maybe I'm just an

Old man shouting out of cloud but that's My vibe yeah I mean I'll be honest I'm Not super well versed on gaming or even Crypto to be honest even though I'm the Fintech reporter so you know it's hard For me to kind of visualize all of this And try to understand it but my first Thought is it feels kind of gimmicky and You know that could just be me talking Out of my you know what but like the Whole crypto angle I mean but in the Company's I guess defense is that they Use account abstractions so that even if You're not like well vers in crypto or Have crypto knowledge you can still play And it can still be fun but I I just I Don't know how many other games out There might be like this I mean are There other AI powered games or you know Is this just the beginning being of a Trend or what I don't know are we going To see more of this people hope it's a Trend yeah people want it to be a trend Because they think crypto is the future And so like to me there's a religious Viewpoint here that like if you believe Blockchains are the future then you need To bring AI to them or vice versa Because they're both the future so the Future has to come together yeah I think You know one of the most famous maybe Infamous examples of a blockchain game And a crypto game gone wrong was the axi Infinity debacle where people were just

Scammed out of money and had Like you know farm for coins or whatever Was going on there and so you know the I Guess implication of when you think of Blockchain game you're like oh great It's a scam I think this is based on I Think an article that was written last Month by one of ethereum's co-founders That is called AI plus crypto and I Think that his points were that AI could Really be used in crypto gaming in four Different ways with like non-playable Characters you could use AI to like Judge the results of a game or you know Their various other applications and so I think like here is one way that They're doing it and in this case They're using AI to really speed up the Production of the gaming and then it Just happens to be a blockchain game on Top of it there are so many ways to Approach gaming as a model there are Companies that produce free tolay games That have inap monetization even some New games like stormgate and RTS is Approaching it that way very cool There's MMO RPGs that have subscription Based economics there's Indie Publishers That sell games for a discret price and Then also upsell you on like the Soundtrack then there's the Paradox Model in which you make a game and then Add DLCs to expand the content over time All of these models work for different

Types of titles and I can see a place Where AI fits into essentially all of Them in time crypto gaming seems to Always have an nft gallery and some Speculative currency and people trying To grind out extra money yes and until Blockchain brings something that isn't That I don't care about it when Blockchain makes my games that exist Already better when it makes a better Grand strategy game a better City Management game a better RPG then I'm Here for it but I don't want Nfts yeah I'm with you same G sorry I Just I'm I'm having flashbacks to like Two years ago because you know you know How I feel about nfts yeah yeah okay Fine since we're here now I'm going to Talk more about this so on the Ultraverse website there's this little Thing about are you ready to meet your Meta GF or meta BFF and it was this two We long Moonlight nft mint so it went on Openc and I looked it up and it's just Like one woman's like head with like Different characteristics attached to Her and like some of them are rare and It just I don't know is this what we've Managed to accomplish in all these years Of crypto it just feels a little bit Modest compared to the progress we've Seen elsewhere in the world of Technology and that brings me to robots

And Lettuce everyone's favorite Subway my Deal of the week is hippo Harvest they Just raised a $21 million series B Tim Desent had this for us as a tech orang Exclusive raised the money from standard Investments congrate Ventures Amazon Climate pledge fund hawthor food Ventures and energy impact Partners the Company is now worth $145 million and It's going to use small robots to run Indoor farms and he thinks he can do This much more efficiently cut back on Water usage fertilizer usage and you Know I think we've all become accustomed To the idea of warehouses using cute Little Bots to zip around and move Things why not use those same now Commoditized robots to grow lettuce and Other Goods so I think this is awesome But Maryann you are our skeptic and Chief so I want to know what do you Think I agree I think it's cool really Really cool actually they said that they Can grow the greens using up to 92% less Water that's huge 55% less fertilizer And no pesticide so if it works why not This is great so they want to stick with Green GRE houses rather than vertical Farms and it's really more I guess the Angle of this is more of a robot startup Really than just indoor farming this Sector has struggled we've seen a few Players in the space like two filed for

Bake rumpy app Harvest Fifth Season Ironox had some layoffs B farming even Which was booming a few years ago also Had some layoffs and valuation Cuts but This feels this feels like it's a little Different it has real Potential from you Know my humble perspective I have a Question though is this going to drive Up the costs of let's say lettuce Because aren't robots expensive to use Well commoditize robots less so so if You're Amazon and you're going to have I'm going to make up a number here a Thousand warehouses across the United States that's not the right number You're going to have a bunch of robots Inside those warehouses and when you Start thinking about robots in the Hundreds of thousands or millions of Units the costs are going to come down Quite a lot you're going to figure out a Way to build them and so the idea here Is take that commoditized Tech and then Apply it to the struggling area of Indoor or vertical farming and so the Question I think to your point Karine is Not only can those units be cheap enough To make this work when you purchase them But also then to run and maintain them And that's going to be the Gambit but on The price point here's my pitch to you Karine you're at the store and you're Going to make your beautiful child a Lovely salad for dinner because he's a

Growing boy and needs to eat his greens And you're staring down three lettuce Options the cheap version which is no Marks about where it was grown how it Was grown Etc then there's a organic is Version you know the lettuce was patted On the head and sung songs and so forth And then there's a third option this was Grown indoors it saved water if you buy This lettuce you're helping the planet How much more would you pay for option Three than option two well I'm from the Bay Area so you know I'm going to go for The most woow woo lettuce that exists on The Shelf so I will go for the one that And being in California where we're one Drought away from from being I don't Know cut off from the rest of the Country I get it I get it and that makes Sense and I would you know pay a little Bit more for that I suppose but with Food scarcity and urban farming you know Is trying to become a thing like I'm you Know I'm here for it I mean one one Thing I'd argue is that when we talk About food scarcity and people being Priced out of the kind of like standard Goods of life one thing you could also Say and this is not a positive but maybe Food is actually too cheap in terms of Its impact on the planet and we're just Pushing some cost to the Future and not Dealing with them now it's just Economically more easy to do it this way

Hippo Harvest I hope it does really well I love this I've always thought that Urban farming makes a lot of sense Versus shipping stuff across Rail lines Is pretty efficient but if you put into A truck it's not so I'm really into this And also I don't like farming so let the Robots do it that's just hard not into It now when we come back my friends We're talking about some big Ventures Comings and going Maryann has all you Need to know we're right back after this Short Break is your company planning to go Public or conduct a shareholder Liquidity program within the next 18 to 24 months did you know that proactively Planning for your next private company Liquidity event or IPO can help you Maintain greater control over timelines And outcomes Morgan Stanley at work Believes that when you have the right Technology and systems in place working In harmony leading up to a transaction You can prepare and execute with more Accuracy and ease visit Assessment to connect with their issu Strategy and Excellence team for a free Assessment to find out if your company Is transaction ready again that's Assessment to get your free assessment Today so this week I wrote about The

Foundry group this is a venture capital A firm that's been around for 18 years And done a lot of investing apparently Has a very impressive exit record some Companies in their portfolio are Fitbit Zinga Avid exchange and the big news was They've decided to wind L down Operations and not raise any more funds So this was a little unexpected to most Of us because the firm just announced a $500 million fund last may now after I Published the story I had a lot of People cry out on Twitter that this was Not unexpected everybody knew that this Was the plan all along maybe you knew it If you were another venture capitalist And had talked to Seth LaVine for Example one of the co-founder and Partners and heard him tell you cuz Apparently he had talked about his plans Which started to brew in his mind Sometime in 2023 that he may decide not To invest anymore and that turned into The fund deigning to wind down but Anyway most of us did not know about This so it was it was generally Unexpected and they wouldn't talk to me Directly about the decision but I did Get pointed to some blogs and apparently They said that yes this is unusual VC Firms rarely make decisions like this But it's something that they planed to Do when they started back in 2006 they Decided not to to build a legacy or

Generational firm they wanted to focus Just on the work of investing and then They decided that you know they kept Saying well is this going to be our last Fun is this going to be our last fun and They decided not to raise another one so That's basically it but to be clear when We say they're shutting down or winding Down that doesn't mean their doors are Closed they're not doing anything that's Not the case at all here unlike open View which in I think it was in December January I lose track now did actually Shut down on layoff Partners Foundry Still has 33% to 40% left out of its $500 million fund to invest so it's Planning to still continue to Lead Series A and B financings out of that Fund and the company says it will also Continue to work with businesses in Which it has Investments for years to Come and that's the critical thing There's two ways to shutter a business One is to just close your doors lock it And run away and the other is to wind Down new operations and then support What you have already in the market and For VCS the product is investment so They're shutting down kind of in slow Motion this will slowly degrade in terms Of total activity until it reaches a Zero point down the road but here's my Thing Maran I watched you get dragged on Twitter for this and two things pissed

Me off one part of our job is to go into The weeds and pull things up so people Can see them who didn't already know That they were there so simply because You an Insider in the VC World whose Friends are VCS and friends or Founders Knew this does not mean that the tech Runch audience did a lot of people read Tech runch and there's not that many D's Out there and then also that you didn't Get wrong I didn't like it well thank You for defending me Alex I was pretty Shocked by the number of people who got Really upset by the wording of the story I guess and that they actually I feel Like misinterpreted the intentions in my Reporting it was a very fact-based Article I had no malicious intentions no No hidden agenda but I will say I was Touched and impressed by the number of People who rushed to defend Foundry that The firm clear really has a lot of Supporters and fans and portfolio Companies other VCS or general observers And to me that says a lot about the firm And the character of the partners so I Was very impressed by that yes I was Actually pretty touched by that to be Honest with you there's a way though to Show respect without crapping on someone Else I'm just saying yeah I appreciate That thank you yeah I you know you have To have a thick skin as a reporter I Know my intentions I know what I set out

To do when I wrote the piece so I can Take comfort in that I will also say That while there was a number of people Kind of declaring this to be a negative Piece I didn't hear any negative Feedback at all from the firm itself I Would like to point that out that's what I was going to say if the firm was happy With the reporting then who cares about The haters that's you know if you got it Correct and they're okay with it then I Think that that's you know that means It's a really good solid story take it One step further if the firm's happy With the reporting we should have been Meaner well you know I don't know if Happy would be the word but they didn't Refute any of it and they they seemed You know comfortable with the language Used but anyway overall it was a big Deal in the Venture world this is a firm That been around for a long time almost Two decades had made over 200 Investments had a really great Reputation it seems like again from what I can tell and also you know like I said A lot of exits so they they were Prolific investors and well-regarded Ones so it is a loss for the Venture World so that that is news but think About how long a venture fund lasts Right I mean we used to think of these As 10 year instruments now they're more Like 12 and so you know you have a pile

Of money and you're doing a big fund and You know maybe you're looking around You're thinking to yourself what if I Opened my long hoped for miniature golf Course come personal bar slash indoor Farm that I've always wanted to do on my Property I don't want to do 12 more Years of work I kind of get it I I mean If I had one tenth of the money of these Partners I would not be working so I Don't know it's weird to see a firm shut Down but from a personal basis I I get It I do too I totally get it so I think We just have to be careful to understand That this sounds like apparently a Thought out decision it isn't one where It feels like in the case of open view They really kind of was very abrupt Shutting down and having to lay off People there seem to be very two two Different cases but what we are seeing Overall and what I keep hearing from Others is that the Venture world is Shrinking and regardless for what the Reasons are there are a lot of firms That seem to be either scaling back Winding down Cutting staff so it's an overall and I Hate to use the word trend but this is Something we're probably going to be Seeing more of in different forms yeah But there was some good news out there As well Karine for both early bird Health and Homebrew what's going on

There I mean it looks like they were Growing so you know even within the Shrinking of all the the firms that we Talked about there are a few that are Still growing up and down yeah early Bird health is a European focused Health Tech fund and they doubled essentially From fund one to fund two if memory Servs I think they put together like 175 Million euro for their new fund and then Homebrew which is mostly now working With partner capital is putting together A $50 million fund that we don't quite Understand yet Maryanne I don't think But the Justice from our our guess is That it's probably an opportunity fund Or something similar along those lines Yeah exactly from what I understand what I heard is that they didn't want to use Spvs anymore for follow on prata Investments so they are targeting this New fund so let's Maran I knew exactly What you just said but not everybody has Been so iMed in Venture things so SPV Special purpose vehicle essentially it's Like a micro Venture Capital fund you Put together for a single deal let's say You have allocation don't have enough Capital you can put together an SPV Raise some more money and put that in as A single check prata rights essentially Allow a prior investor to defend their Current percentage ownership in a Company over time they put in more

Capital for that usually at higher Prices Pro rites are a big deal in Venture Land both in terms of how people Use them or abuse them and I think I Think that should cover it yeah yeah Thank you Alex you're so good at like Putting things in everyday language well Maryann isn't that what we do all Day you know it is what we're supposed To do all day right yeah yeah well wait Till you see the post I wrote with Ron It's full of complete Jeron and I can't Wait to get it down all right great I Want to talk about why combinator Everyone's favorite or least favorite Accelerator controversial certainly at Times very popular very successful and They have a new call for startups out There walk us through what they're Looking for sure so they are putting out A call for startups in the areas like AI Spatial Computing climate Tech and Health Tech among other things I don't Think that the AI and spatial Computing Aspects of their list are very Surprising considering that AI is hot Hot hot and Apple's Vision Pro just came Out and so they are expecting a lot of Startups to be working on spatial Computing type apps I suppose they Haven't done a request Quest like this Since 2018 of course they updated the List a little bit during the pandemic When they were looking for covid related

Startups and you know Healthcare Startups is still on their list but this Time they're focusing on cancer Treatment and other kinds of help in the Healthcare industry such as like Eliminating the middleman when it comes To certain aspects of healthcare Maran I'm curious The Vision Pro is out and Some people have bought it got some good Reviews some mixed reviews Do you think that's going to be a big Enough Niche to launch startups on top Of in the coming years that's a good Question I don't know like how about With metas has did startups launch off Of its comparable device because I I Don't know I don't think in this way Yeah not not like this I mean there are Some games that have been made that are You know VR compatible that I presume Work with Quest headsets but no I not Not like the similar broom we saw with The launch of the app store for iOS for Example which did lead to generations of New companies I just think it's still Too small of a space like Microsoft Tried this with Hollow lens name a Company that built the killer Hollow Lens app silence I would agree I mean I Was a little surprised to see that as One of its main areas of focus of course Obviously climate Tech and applications Of AI were not surprising but yeah I Thought it was interesting too that this

Is the first time they've done this Really since 2018 except as Karan Mentioned when Co hit so I'm just Wondering what drove them to start this Back up again well I mean gosh I feel Like we've almost gotten done digesting At last the excesses of 2021 and so Maybe after you finally finish your Heartburn and indigestion you begin to Kind of look at the menu again and in This analogy startups are cheeseburgers Yes yeah maybe it wants to be more Targeted now and hoping to entice Startups in these areas and I doubt it's Not that it's trying to deter startups That aren't doing these things but I Guess it just wants to be more targeted In its approach and then who applies for Its cohorts okay I'm going to throw in Something else here because I think we Should broaden some context if Tim our Resident climate genius was here he Would mention things like the inflation Reduction act changes to Green energy Financing and I'm saying climate words Trees things like that Tim would talk About those so I think there has been a A top down National shift in Focus Towards more climate Tech that could Unlock spend from both governments and Private corporations so climate Tech as A new theme for YC kind of fits in there For me and then defense technology has Certainly become much less dislike

In Venture circles making guns used to Be kind of under a vice Clause now People want to make really big guns and Sell them to the government cool fair Enough and then space I really think That now the space costs have come down So much on a launch basis especially With Shar launches and larger Rockets Coming from space X that there's a lot More stuff you can do there and this Week just because I wanted to bring it Up somewhere vaa space which makes drugs In space because there's lots gravity so You can do cool stuff with crystals got Permission to bring them back so we're Soon going to have space drugs on the Market so I I think this YC list makes a lot of Sense I mean look they're kind of Dissing crypto a little bit but I'm not Shocked yeah maybe that's fine and of Course you know this is I don't remember Where I read this but when they were Creating this list they're thinking of It as kind of like a conversation Starter like kind of a prompt for people Who are working on something and don't Know quite yet where it'll fit in the Market you know this could be Directionally helpful for them yeah I'm Really looking forward to demo day as Well when is demo day I think it's April 3D and April 4th so coming up and of Course we are going to have all things

Demo day on this show sometimes we even Do an extra episode just to dig into the Coolest companies that we saw so Mary And Karine and I will be bringing you That very soon but that's all the time We have for today Equity comes out three Times a week on Mondays on Wednesdays And on Fridays and if you're a social Person come socialize with us because we Are Equity pot on X and threads and we Are Tech runch pods on Tik Tok all right Bye everybody talk to you soon bye Bye Equity is hosted by myself Alex Wilhelm and Tech rench senior reporter Mary an aeto we are produced by Teresa Loans solo with editing by Kell Bryce Durban is our illustrator and a big Thank you to the audience development Team and Henry pette who manages Tech Runch audio products thank you so much For listening and we'll talk to you next Time


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