SBF’s sentencing, Robinhood’s new credit card, and more woes for Fisker | Equity Podcast

This episode is presented by invest Puerto Rico if you believe your business Can go anywhere Puerto Rico is the [Music] Place hello and welcome back to equity a Podcast about the business of startups Where we unpack the numbers and the Nuance behind the headlines my name is Alex and I'm joined today as I am h Every Friday by my dear friend senior Tech runch reporter on all things Fintech it's marann asto marann hi how's Life life is good it's a beautiful day Here in Austin how are you well I got an Eye infection my eye did horrible Terrible things I got to spend a day on The couch and now I am back at work and Blinking a lot but I can see out of both Sides of my face which does allow me to Spy in the other corner it's Kirsten Corac hey Kirsten how are you hey it's Been a minute since I've been on I've Traveled I don't know like seven Different places since the last time I Was on the podcast so it's good to be Back wow so I wasn't going to bring up The fact that you were just going on Full Jet Set mode there for a bit but Give us your Chief highlight from the Last business trips quickly and what did You learn that was the most interesting So Detroit was really fascinating to see Actually what's kind of going on Downtown with this incubator Michigan

Central that new lab is actually Involved in Saw how it's all laid out It's very neat and we actually have a Feature coming up in a couple weeks About one of those startups o s South by Was South by in Austin missed you Maryann I know you escaped the city at That time and you know there was still Transportation stuff but wow was there a Lot of gen AI stuff going on never heard Of it Orange County was rivan so that Was a big show lots of fans very Interesting to see the R3 that was the Big surprise and prior to that was La Again for the strictly VC event in which I interviewed Teedra maakana Whos co-ceo On stage and since then they've Basically launched publicly in Los Angeles driverless so A lot's happened Yeah Maryann I went from my couch to my Desk to my couch and back to my desk Again I take it you had a similar Schedule yes very very similar I'm Living vicariously through Kirsten yes And you know who else is going to be Living vicariously through people who Have the right to travel well it's Sam Bankman freed because he's about to be Nailed down both feet inside of prison For quite a long time Maryann can you Run us through just the the highlevel Numbers here about why fraud is not a Good business model well S bankman free Was sentenced to 25 years in prison

Today for fraud and money laundering at FTX Okay so we've all been wondering we Were all curious how long he was going To get I think his attorneys argued for Far less seven years seven years right And he he could have gotten what up to 110 yeah which that's that's a lot so 25 Is the number I I think we should have a Rule for every billion dollars you Squander it's a hundred years in prison You know I think there should be some Really stiff penalties for certain Behaviors out there I think it would Help quite a lot I'm glad he didn't get Seven years I think 25 it's a lot it's a Lot I don't think he needs 25 years to Get over being a bad kiddo but I do Think that it's good to have the Precedent set that if you do this you Get yeah I mean he's 32 now so he'll be In his 50s when he gets out and if he Were to serve the full sentence and That's that will be interesting to see That play out not sure I'll be paying Attention to it 18 years from now Potentially but I'll recall the name When that comes up and be like ah yes I Recall those times and we talked about It on the equity podcast what happened To that guy well it turns out not much It is substantially less than let's say Bernie made off I think that's Reasonable is yeah there's Nuance there Anyways I'm sorry I got so caught up in

The kind of breaking news of s spf's Sentencing that I forgot to do the show Rundown so if you're curious what's Going to be on the Pod today well we are Going to talk about three deals of the Week the first one all about Robin Hood's new offering what's going on with Fiser and datab breaks just launched What and then we are going to dive into Kid focused startups which are growing Very very quickly and then a new fund That does appear to be contr Trend in One interesting way but first Maryann Robin Hood back on the show post IPO What's going on yeah so Robin Hood this Week unveiled a new credit card which They call the Robin Hood gold card this Was not a shock to those of us who've Been paying attention to Robin Hood's Activities last summer it did scoop up a Startup called X1 for $95 million I had Covered that company a couple of times And one of the features that that card Had that is being parlayed into this one Or has been parl to this one is that Card holders can get cash back they get 3% cash back and that cash back can be Rolled into their brokerage accounts at Robin Hood and they could use it to Invest that's just one of many features That this card offers what was that Company that was doing like that it Rounds up your purchases and then puts That the extra into savings for you was

It acorns oh well I mean a legacy Company is Fidelity I have that Retirement savings card actually oh That's cool oh okay but it doesn't go to A brokerage right I mean it's put into a Retirement a dedicated retirement so That isn't a New Concept what I like is That there's no annual or foreign Transaction fees which I think is going To be compelling for people because There's there's a lot of in annual fees In some of the more established let's Say financial institution backed credit Cards yeah absolutely but maryan not Everyone can get this card there's Actually a requirement upfront that does Well kir makes a very good point put it Into greater context right right there Is no annual fee or foreign transaction Fee however you can only get the card if You're a Robin Hood gold member that Costs either $5 a month or $50 a year Which you know they say oh depending on How much you spend you could earn back Fairly quickly that's how they're Selling it the 3% cash back is Interesting because it's not on just any One or two categories like food travel Or groceries it's on everything and that As I was writing about this made me Think a lot about parallels to the Apple Card which has a lot of interesting Features as well but the cash back it Offers is 2% on all purchases I think it

Offers higher percentage back on Apple Purchases but across all categories Robin hoods is three apples was two or Is to I'm glad you brought up Apple Because I bet some people are like why Is the equity team discussing a new Credit card offering and it's because Frankly what we are seeing is technology And Tech adjacent companies like Robin Hood get more deep into consumer credit And we're seeing companies that can Essentially become fintech players that We didn't expect to become them I mean If you think about when Apple rolled out The iPod and I told you down the road They're going to have high yield savings Accounts and a consumer credit card you Would have been like why did they become Goldman Sachs but now it's kind of Normal is to do this so Robin Hood to me Is kind of following in a wave of Companies that are moving in the same Direction to become more financially Relevant we're also finally starting to See sort of the fruition of some of These Acquisitions that we were talking About not just Robin Hood but a number Of other companies like what are they Going to do with this acquisition and And now we're seeing that play out and So as you mentioned earlier we we could Have predicted this but now we see what It looks like and I think that there's a Number of other we have I've got to go

Back in our AR iives because there's Been a number of these types of Acquisitions from some of these Companies that kind of put them closer Into the fintech world yeah I I kind of Nerded out a little bit on the aspect of It having covered the startup from its Early days right so I always find it Interesting watching a startup grow and Then to see one get acquired by a larger Public company like Robin Hood and its Technology rolled into its offering like That I think is pretty fascinating Robin Hood opted to do this instead of trying To build out the technology itself which We often see large players do these days Yeah also I just think we're seeing Essentially every platform become like Every other platform period like we used To joke about this in the world of Social media like something becomes big Facebook clones it and then you know That's kind of how things went forever But it now seems to be a little bit Broader than that it like for example LinkedIn is trying to do games like the New York Times and videos up top like Tik Tok why because they want to grow More apparently and so I wonder if this Kind of Falls Maran underneath the same Agis of once you have some users you Eventually just want to juice them for Everything you can and so I expect Robin Hood to launch an ad Network in the next

Six months you never know when it when It does happen we can all groan together Anyways over to the world of automotive And EVS Kristen one of my favorite Companies and by that I mean Sarcastically Fisker is having one hell Of a week and I want the high Lev Breakdown because so much has been going On over at the troubled company yeah Well I I think dumpster fire is a more Accurate descriptor right now so there Have been problems at Fisker for a while Now but you know how when a company you Just see it all of a sudden Accelerate From like o that's a problem H that's a Problem federal investigation you know This is what's happened to Fisker so you Might recall about four weeks ago or so We did have a investigation on how Multiple customer complaints and federal Investigations into the fiser vehicle The software being buggy the hoods Flying off rollway problems so that sort Of was a huge red flag that was Happening but behind the scenes there Was apparently a lot of money internal Money problems so the scoop that we had From Shan oain was that based on sources That we spoke to Fisker lost track of Millions of dollars in customer payments For months they did manage to find Locate and recapture those dollars back But this is basically failing at a Fundamental level of what a company

Needs to do to survive which is first You have to make a product and make a Product that is of good enough quality And then you sell that product and then You got to collect that money because Otherwise you're basically giving away For free so that's what was happening Over at Fisker and it's uncleared us Whether they have resolved all these Issues but it did trigger an internal Audit and then the last thing is while That was happening many other things Have been happening Fisker basically is Running out of money it's deal with an Automaker unnamed but reportedly Nissan Fell through and that was a closing Condition on its $150 million Convertible note so now stock dropped 28% ouch trade was halted and the same Day New York Stock Exchange then Suspended them so this all happened in The span of two or three days suddenly And then quickly yes on the Fisker Losing track of payment story that I was Reading as we prepped for today's show The thing that made me laugh the hardest Was the fact that they weren't sure who Had sent them money and and I believe They sent cars to people who hadn't Actually paid for them yes I read the Same thing I read that and was like oh My goodness how on how on Earth do you Do that you deliver a car to someone who Hasn't paid for it at all I mean what a

Mess look we all clown on Williams the F1 team for using Excel to track like 20,000 different parts for their F1 cars But at least Williams rolls up you know With a car I feel like here they must Have just had like different systems That weren't talking to each other but I'll just say this I didn't get a free Fisker ocean and uh that's a bummer I Could have used one I don't think you Want a free Fisker ocean um clearly They're running out of money but I don't Think figuring out how to collect money Is going to solve their problems they're Sitting on about uh just under 5,000 Vehicles in their inventory and they Just slashed the price of their vehicle By about up to 39% o in the last couple Days wow so Imagine the desperation I don't actually Understand why that's even happening Quite honestly because it immediately Crushes any existing ocean owner the Resale value just now is plummeted I Don't think that even if they sold every Single one of these that they would even Be in a better financial position Because they certainly must be losing Money on those cars by selling them so Cheaply at the end of the day I think They just want to get rid of the Inventory and maybe it makes it cleaner For them to enter into bankruptcy oh man You you said the b word now if it

Happens we're going to get we're going To get blamed you've jinxed them I think The only people who to be blamed are the Folks maybe running Fisker but I would Be shocked if Fisker doesn't file for Bankruptcy protection within this court Well the quarter is about to end but Within the next quarter I that is my big Prediction of 2024 how about that well I I think you're dead on and I'll just say That I've always thought the Fisker Alaska which is their I think yet to be Released EV truck was super hot here's My little chef's kiss I mean here's the Thing Henrik Fisker is the CEO of the Company and is a well-known famed Designer and his wife is actually a CFO You liking the Alaska pickup or people Actually liking the design of the Fisker Ocean is the problem here which is Having a well-designed vehicle does not In any way mean that you will have a Successful company in fact because you Have to execute on things like that it Works mechanically the software works The service works and that's that's the Big question the software and service For the existing owners of Fisker if Fisker Dies who maintains that it can't Just be pretty right we live in an era Right now where we are starting to get More and more modern vehicles from newer Companies and if those companies go out Of business because they are so software

Centric it isn't clear that you could Even hold on to these vehicles for the Length of time that the average American Holds on to Vehicles today which is About 11 years or longer what will this Car look like in 15 20 years it's going To look like an Android smartphone still Running like Android 4 by the way the Problems that Kirsten's outlining here Involving price Cuts impacts on resale Values young companies that may die and Software updates is also impacting a lot Of EV makers over in China so while this Is a Fisker story it's also a global Story and I could go on and on and on For example like the fact that Fisker Was gross margin negative back in Q3 but We have to move on we do we got to talk About data bricks yet again but this Time not because data bricks has dropped Us an entire sheath of new numbers Showing off how fast they're growing While still not going public but instead They have spent $10 million give or take On a new generative AI model called Dbrx now putting these models to the Test is a little tricky it's hard to say Which one's precisely better for Different tasks but it seems to be Roughly on par with some leading models And slightly not quite as good as gp4 But Maryann to build something almost as As good as what open AI has in the Market today for 10 mli seems to be like

A pretty good deal yeah I mean honestly I have to give Kyle props obviously the He's the author on this and he knows the Space very well so I was trying to Understand the Nuance here what's the Difference between datab Brick's new Model compared to open AIS I don't know Alex did you get it more or less so the Way to think about this is datab bricks Wants you to bring your data over to Data bricks and then use their services For all of your data processing data Intelligence AI needs and so forth and So what they want to do is make sure That there's lots of cool models you can Use for your data over on data bricks so It makes sense that they have their own Model and you can use it it's quas open Source in the same way that a lot of Other things like I think llama 2 is the Thing that really stood out to me though Maryanne is the the hardware costs are Quite High I have downloaded llm Software and tried to run models on my Own local environment I failed but you Know I could I could download them and Run them in theory this requires I think A CPU or GPU cluster of at least four H100s which are very expensive hard to Get your hands on and not exactly a a Prosumer item so this is aimed at the Enterprise and so it's you know not Really for us but who does datab Brick Sell to well it's not us so I guess that

Kind of sits well with me yeah I mean That's I guess my question so at least Four Nvidia h100 gpus a single one of Those cost thousands of dollars so who Is the customer of data breaks is my Question if it's not us who is it well If you want to use their recently Purchased company Mosaic ml it might Help with just that bringing back your Point about Acquisitions that are being Announced earlier and we SE kind of Later tucked into these Mecha Corps I Think what matters here more than Anything is the competition for Foundation models is not going to be Restricted to just open AI versus Anthropic versus alphabet there are Other players that have the sufficient Capital resources and customer base to Make this a viable economic option now I Think the thing that we'll want to know In 6 months is is anyone using dbrx or Was this essentially them building Something that was then ignored by the Market but I do think it's an important Moment for the trajectory of these Technologies and that's kind of what I What I took away and wanted to bring up Because eventually at some point before We die maybe maybe maybe before s SPF Gets out of prison they will go public And then we'll get to learn more but This will be a point in that eventual S1 Filing I think right yeah I mean I I do

Think it's positive that there are more Companies and entering into this Market That it's not just dominated by open AI Even though they are dominating a lot Including headlines that there's another Company that's doing something somewhat Similar although there are some slight Differences here and competition is Always good specifically around I think Generative AI because it can be used in So many dangerous ways that I think when There's multiple companies working on it That is a positive yeah but I'm still Waiting to understand who Data bricks' Customer will end up being for this very Specific product the way that I think About it is I mean I wouldn't be shocked If Yahoo was a datab bricks customer but I think teun is probably too small and So I presume this model is tuned for Very specifically the Enterprise use Case you know bring your own data Retrain it with your own stuff and then You have your own your own in-house Model but we got to move on and that Means we have to take a very short break But when we are back kid Focus startups Two of them in fact and how building for Tots can be quite the way to make a Buck What's next in Tech that's not the right Question it's where Puerto Rico more Than just a Tropical Paradise it's an Innovations Paradise where startups and

Global players coexist in a vast and Vibrant ecosystem where Talent runs deep Highly skilled and bilingual plus the Island offers the most competitive tax Incentives in the US if you believe your Business can go anywhere Puerto Rico is The place find out more at invest R .org TechCrunch this week we had a couple of Stories on kid focused startups raising Capital which I as a parent of course Thoroughly enjoyed because I feel like People don't realize if you don't have Kids just how much money is spent on Children so anytime we have startups That have new products or new software Or new whatever that helps make our Lives easier help us save money our ears Perk up one such startup is called Playtime time engineering and they have Come up with something that if you're Musically inclined seems very very cool It's a it's a keyboard synthesizer or a Kid-friendly synthesizer designed for Kids ages three and up how cool is that Yeah this is really cool so this is Actually started as a Kickstarter Campaign which is kind of fun and Interesting but when I walk through a Toy store or whatever there's there is a Lot of like kid keyboards and how is This different well This is pretty this is pretty Sophisticated for a child's toy I think

They're looking to sell it for about $350 which is is a lot and the company Acknowledges that but apparently it's It's really more like a the company Describes it as essentially a Groove box Or electronic music production device Fully decked out with a drum machine Synthesizer built-in microphone for Audio sampling and sequencer allinone Device this rips so making music you can Actually put together Like that sounds like yeah okay and it Has these really chunky buttons and Knobs because one thing that I have Learned by hanging around with children Is that their their hand dexterity is Garbage they really can't like have a Baby try to pick up one Cheerio it's Hilarious they're like they can't do it So you need to have really big knobs That don't come off when the baby Tri to Rip them off and there's a lot of things That go into children's uh Toy design But looking at this thing and being Somebody who owns a consumer grade Synthesizer device that I bounced off of Because I was too dumb to figure out how To make a talk to my software I love This idea let the kids have something Cool help them be creative get them into The idea that art isn't something you Just consume but can also participate in And create hell yeah where was this when I was a kid we had to have like tape

Decks like this is this is wildly Awesome yeah I I mean I I'm sadly not Very musically inclined but I do think If you have children who want to explore Making music and you could afford it That this is pretty darn cool it's Called My tracks and as soon as my first Daughter can use it I'm buying her one Because I want to see what she comes up With a so does that mean she's going to Come up with like the equity podcast Like soundtrack potentially you know I Don't think the production team here Would allow me to bring that into the Show probably not so here's a little Known fact actually we were I was kind Of teasing you about having your Daughter do the synthesizer but actually The technology that we use the synthesiz We use for Equity is the same as this it Just doesn't have the big buttons our Podcast producer Master doesn't need the Big buttons but it's the same exact Technology exactly so essentially what We're saying is as soon as my daughter Is a couple years older Teresa is out And a is in and that's how we're going To run the show from there on out we Joke I just think it's really cool to See more technology put to use in this Manner because it brings Delight to kids And also gets them off of Tik Tok on Their parents' phone Maran though

There's another story and this one is Incredibly cool I think this is Fantastic and this is right on my alley Tell us all about kidy yeah I thought so Too I thought it was really interesting Kid's a new Chicago based e-commerce Startup and what they do is sell kids Clothing toys and gear at discounted Rates and they do it in an interesting Uh and kind of different way they Partner with retailers like Macy's Target Kohl's Walmart you name it and we Know that these retailers have a ton of Like returns and open box items that They don't resell and I've never really Thought about what happens to them but Apparently they either get sold for like Really cheap overseas or end up in the Landfill which is just such a disgusting Waste so kidy buys these items from them Directly and then resells them on its Website and it's recently raised a Million dollars in precede funding and In just a matter of months an emerg from Beta in September they said that by January they had hit $1 million in Annualized Revenue oh so they sold three Dresses and a Bib so this kind of I mean it sounds Like a kind of like an Overstock model Yeah is that fair I would I would say so Okay which is a pretty big company so What I'm curious of course and and I'm Guessing that they didn't provide this

Information but they hit a really nice Revenue number what is their cost and Overhead I mean are they already On the road to profitability well she Told me they expect to be profitable in About 2 years it's early yet so Obviously we don't know but they get a Take rate on every item they sell and The percentage varies across Brands and Categories on average it's about 35% which is a lot that's a lot yeah and It also makes a lot of sense because if You're a company that was going to sell It off for 10 cents on the dollar or Throw it away getting 65% of a reduced Amount is probably much better and it Means that kidy gets a big fat cut of This stuff I I think this is just great Maran there is so much waste in uh Little kiddos because they grow fast and They are disgusting foul little Creatures and so everything's always Torn ripped and covered in snot so it's Just great to have this system and one Thing that I have been really lucky About is we have a couple of friends Here where I live and they have kids That are about two years older than than Our first and so people just gave us Stuff yeah that's ideal we have so many Like children's toys in books that People outgrew and they're done having Kids and just gave to us but not Everyone has that community and paying

Full ticket for these prices these items Is often prohibitive so having a way to Get them more cheap into people's hands And reduce waste and support kids what a I mean it's cool to see a business where Everyone wins I love it I think yeah I Think it's a very cool model I mean the Majority of the products they sell are Brand new and unused about 10% only are Gently used so combing the website There's a lot of popular brands on there I do think there's a lot of potential if This is done right to be a pretty Successful company and interestingly the Co-founder shared her backstory she's a Former journalist Bloomberg TV and ABC News journalist that went on to direct a Documentary and that documentary was on Child labor and Global Supply chains and That's when she learned about this Inventory glut that exists in the US and All the supply chain issues by faced by Retailers and that kind of led her down This path I think it's absolutely Fantastic and if you want to hear more About how entrepreneurs are tackling the Question of kids well we had an Interview with the CEOs of wond school An early day on the podcast earlier this Week so go back one episode and you'll See that in your feed it's a good time There's an acquisition there and who Doesn't love seeing some Venture back Startup combinations now moving on we're

Going to talk about sustainability and Diversity for a second because there's Quite a lot going on here now Maran I Want to start with this new Summit fund It's about climate so I know kson will Have a lot to say but can you give us The the tldr on new summit's new capital Vehicle yeah so new Summit Investments Is apparently raising a new hundred Million impact fund and it's mainly Focused on investing in managers backing Startups and other companies focused on Environmental and social problems so of Course all of us welcome more money Flowing into that because who doesn't Want these problems solved yeah to me What's really interesting here is the Sizable jump from its previous funds so This is its fifth fund and the last one Was I think around 40 million So that's quite a leap and what I'm Curious to see what happens here they're Calling it like an impact fund social And environmental problems that is huge Hugely broad so is this going to be when We think about environmental like Climate Tech so hard tech or is it more On the social consumer end of things and So I'll be curious to see where these Funds end up absolutely you know it's Interesting there has been a an I'm Going to try to be delicate here call it Under the Dei backlash umbrella of views About investing and how some Norms have

Changed in the last couple years so to Me this fundraise does seem to be Slightly counternarrative which makes it All the more exciting and I will say It's not the only time we've seen an Impact or climate or socially fund out There there's been a number that I've Covered for techch am lately folks who Are trying to have an impact on certain Social and climate issues are still Raising capital and still going out There and doing it yeah I believe that There's been some recent data coming out Right that has talked about that there Is still interest in investing in these Underdog Founders and also in diversity And a number of female Founders also Rising we had a story recently by Mike Butcher actually and it it's a new study That Zero's in on the founders of So-called unicorns so these are Companies worth over a billion dollars And they found that most have quote Unquote Underdog Founders who are often Drawn from the top 10 universities and There's also a rising female founder Makeup as well so while that that sort Of seems to support just your anecdotal Recall just now about how you are seeing Quite a bit around Dei and Investments Yeah you know one thing that hit me from That study that Mike covered was that 70% of unicorns and this is mostly Focused on the US and the UK so not not

The full Global picture but those are Two critical markets for billion dollar Tech startups 70% of unicorns were Founded at least in part by an underdog Founder which they thought of as an Immigrant a woman or a person of color And that was just more than I expect Frankly it challenges kind of my my Perceptions of who's building all these Companies and is a bit more diverse than I than I thought so not to say congrats VC you've done it but I thought that was A relatively encouraging data point it Was it was definitely encouraging I was Very pleasantly surprised to see that I'm always kind of supporting underdogs Uh whether it be like watching Basketball or startups grow so this this Actually made me very happy I do think Also it was interesting Mike had a bunch Of great data points in here that when They looked at like large Funds actually the top fund that Invested in unicorns was Sequoia and They backed only 2.8% of unicorns which Basically what what they're trying to Say is a lot of these big funds are not Necessarily the ones that are spotting These companies that go on to become Unicorns one day and I thought that was Really interesting it's typically other Types of firms or funds that are really Getting in at the very early stages of These unicorns fascinating I have my

Skeptical face onks I read that slightly Differently the data point if you Include accelerators is a little bit Different cuz YCA and SV Angel invest in So many companies they get a higher Percentage of them but to me you know 2.8% of the 84 trillion unicorns out There is quite a lot I guess the Question that I would have is what Percentage of seo's portfolio becomes Unicorns versus what fraction of the Total unicorn pool they have cuz I I Don't I mean Marian I totally see your Point 2.8% doeses not sound like a lot But given that every firm only backs a Small fraction of the backed companies Could that not actually be a more Impressive number than it looks like on The price side it could be I'm not so Much concerned with Sequoia but I'm just Thinking in general the fact that that Was the top that means that a lot of These so-called top tier Venture firms Are not necessarily the ones that are Backing these companies that go on to Become unicorns if that makes sense I Think the point of what both of you are Saying though is fragmentation is this Is quite a fragmented market and there Is any like clear dominant winning VC While we often times point to them that It's a far more fragmented Market which Is a good thing and a bad thing because Then it's hard to track success right

Absolutely although this does allow me To cap off today's show with my favorite Version of of an Ana which is you know People say that the Press are haters and That we are just bitter peons who are Trying to tear down other people's Success well there's no bigger hater in The world than an active Venture Capital Fund because they love to tell you how They turned down 99.9 % of businesses That come their way some of which go on To become unicorns so if you want to Figure out who the biggest hater in the World is go find your local Friendly VC And tape a sign on them that says it's Me and with that we're done for the day Everybody Equity comes out Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays except for when We do have an interview episode and then We drop those when we can we have two Sister shows found in Chain Reaction Today on the Pod we had Kiron corc the Head of all things Transit automotive And awesomeness at TC and MaryAnn who Covers fintech down in Austin for us so That way we can combine tacos and Interest rates my name is Alex Equity is Back on Monday we'll see you then bye Bye Bye Equity is hosted by myself Alex Wilhelm and Tech rench senior reporter Mary an aeto we are produced by Teresa Loans solo with editing by Kell Bryce Durban is our illustrator and a big

Thank you to the audience development Team and Henry pette who manages Tech Wrench audio products thank you so much For listening and we'll talk to you next Time