Why Adam Neumann is trying to buy back WeWork | Equity Podcast

This episode is sponsored by Morgan Stanley atw work visit morganstanley.com Assessment to get your free transaction Readiness assessment [Music] Today hello and welcome back to equity a Podcast about the business of startups Where we unpack the numbers and the Nuance behind the headlines today is February 9th 2024 my name is Alex and I'm joined today by my friends in one Corner I have senior Tech reporter on The fintech beat it's maranne aeto Maryann hi hi I'm happy to be back it Feels like it's it's been so long when It's really only been two weeks I I know But podcasting time is really painful Like when you stop podcasting for a Minute you feel like your entire voice Has been cut off it's It's oddly brutal Right happy to be back well we're glad That you're here we're also glad that Kirsten corack is back with us Kirsten Of course runs the tech runch transport Desk she's a fan of all things EV and Zoom zoom Kirsten hey how are you zoom Zoom zoom I'm great here to talk about All things AVS and EES today and on the Pod for deals of the week we have what The hell Adam Newman is doing with Wework Starship Technologies and the rid Of cute robots and then Ambience Healthcare at the intersection of AI and Health then we're going to talk about

Latin America and why startups down There might not be getting the respect They deserve and then to wrap things up What's going on with big Tech Advertising market and what that tells Us about the health of startups but First Maryanne Adam Newman's back on the Show we're talking about wework again Tell me why well earlier this week it Came out that Adam Newman is trying to Buy back weor which I mean it's once Again another display of arrogance I Believe on the part of this man he Basically was well he was forced to Design the company went bankrupt all Sorts of negative stuff surrounding his Leadership and yet he still wants to buy Back the company out of bankruptcy one Thing that is interesting is that he Claimed in a letter or his attorneys Claimed in a letter to wework that he Had a partner in investor Dan L's hedge Fund third point and that firm has kind Of distanced itself a bit from that Claim saying that they've only had Preliminary conversations with Flo which Is Adam Newman's latest prop Tech Startup by the way backed by Andre Horwitz so lots to unpack here let me Try to put this into sequential order Adam Newman we work up down crash fired People try to save we work it goes Public via a spack eventually ends up Dying as beond know the commercial real

Estate Market's not what it used to be And now Newman who is building flow with Andreon money wants to buy back the Porbs of we work and it's not going that Well Kiren I'm curious what your gut Take on this is cuz you're slightly Cynical I'm not cynical I'm just a Realistic human being so don't put me in That box well it's not surprising to me That he overstated his relationship with Third point because that is a classic I Think Adam Newman stretch and that that Helped him rise to the top and then Crash with we work before so that Doesn't surprise me so much I want to Know more about what flow Global Holdings actually is and what the point Of this whole we work Reclamation is About is this about him Saving Face and Bringing it back to its former glory I Mean what what's the motivation here and How does it fit into what flow Global Holdings does so I have more questions Than a cynical take Alex yeah I mean Honestly I've been trying to figure out Also what Flo does because it's a little Ambiguous to me but basically the the Claim is that it wants to kind of like Brand Apartments like build communities Out of apartment complexes Andre wrote I Think it was a $350 million check into The company a couple of years ago I saw That like an article where someone was Writing about one of the the Branded

Apartments like I think they finally did Something with one I do not understand Where we work fits into this model I Mean one total speculation would be like A work life model because we've gone to Remote work and we you know something Like that um which is by the way not A New Concept in real estate in new Urbanism which came around a couple Decades ago the idea of urban density Instead of in fighting against sprawl One of the concepts is you know having a Little shop and then living above the Little shop and that type of thing so Maybe and again total speculation on my Point but if you ask the question where Does we work fit in to Apartments maybe It's Combining office space and living not a New idea but I'm sure it'll be branded As such if that's the case I I just Can't tell you how unattractive that Sounds as a person who works remotely And lives in a city I mean clearly what Adam Newman is very good at is Fundraising you know oh yeah and I don't Know if that extends to building Excellent live work communities for Regular folks I I just find this whole Thing to be a little cynical because Newman seems to be a little bit irked That his bid or whatever he wants to Call it for what's left of wew work Hasn't gotten the respect he thinks it

Deserves but he waited until it was in Bankruptcy to try to buy it as far as I Can tell as a as a whole cloth entity Which means that he waited until the Company he put together died and then Now that it's going to be able to shed Some of its obligations leases and so Forth and bankruptcy now he wants to buy It back it just I don't know it just I'm Just shaking my head that's fiscally Fiscally prudent though Alex fiscal Prudence and moral resonance often run Crosscurrent to one another very true There and I was looking back at the Letter to we workor from his lawyers and Here's one quote from that in a hybrid Work world where demand for Wei Works Product should be greater than ever my Clients believe that the synergies and Management expertise offered by an Acquisition could significantly exceed The value of the debtor on a standalone Basis sure yeah management expertise yes Famously well shown in the company's Governance and structure putting aside My cynicism apparently I'm alone there Because kir won't join me upon the great Cynicism parade we work did have we live Back in the day and I think it had we Grow which was aimed at kids so there's Some history of of whatever wew work was At some point I want to bring us back Though to see how it all flows together I mean I think this is what we're going

For There is another startup though in the Mix here that I wrote about back in 2020 and it's go to Global which was a Startup that he created and got funding For um he took a 33% Equity stake in it Actually it's a shared Mobility company That operates in Israel and Malta and The aim was to expand to Europe and this Was an investment so he didn't start This company but he owns a third of it And I was just looking into like whether This is still it still has a website and It still seems to be a functioning Company but it's sort of this idea Around offering a range of shared Vehicles so again I wonder if he's still Aiming he seems very interested in Things that are sharing economy like Reusing and so I'm wondering if what We're seeing now kind of all fits Together in this work live play raise Kids Mobility Ecosystem but when he was running Wei Work he famously used company funds to Buy a private jet to avoid doing Transit With other people and if I recall the Reporting around his time there he also Bought a bunch of houses for himself Right am I remembering not for him to Share for to take money off of other People sharing that's that's where I I Get kind of I have a little bit of beef Because I'm trying to think of an

Analogy here it's like I'm going to open A cafeteria for everybody and I'm going To sit in my private dining room like I Don't believe you I don't believe your Heart's in the right place yeah I mean Okay so I would say this like is it oh It's fine as a business person to Recognize that there is a market for Something and make money off of that Market but he turned it into something Of a whole entire philosophy and way of Living that he didn't he it didn't Mirror the way he lived his life those Are two different things secondly I'm Actually not I've never been convinced That people want to share in at Certainly not in the US share anything To do with Mobility people don't like Sharing yes we get on subways and trains But we don't want to share car so that's A little bit separate from this latest News but the whole sharing idea is I Don't know a little bit different I Don't know if you can make money off of It yeah I I I don't know either I know We have to move on but I I did think That we had passed the era of discussing Mr Newman on this podcast and we Apparently will never be past that so That's he will not go away he will not Go well people keep giving him money Which is the crazy thing I mean I I Don't know if I would invest $33.50 into Him given what he did with corporate

Funds in his last company but hey maybe That's why I'm not a billionaire anyways Let's talk about cute robots Kirsten What's up with Starship Starship Technologies this is an Estonian startup That is actually had a lot of success in Spite of severe I would call severe Headwinds and consolidation in the Robotics and autonomous vehicle Technology space so this company Recently raised $90 million in around Coed by plural and ional this has they Didn't share their valuation but they Raised a total of 230 million to date And if you're not familiar with Starship Technologies these are small delivery Robots with you know like think Four-wheel little robots the most common Site to see them in the United States is On University campuses where I live near The University of Arizona it's common to See them and they might be delivering Say a burrito to a student in a dorm Room and this is sort of where at least In the US they've made a lot of Headway But the interesting thing about this Company is it's survival so many other Companies have struggled or shut down And it survived in spite of covid when Universities were going to remote Learning and things like that so I think That that is quite interesting they Haven't been free of troubles their CEO Suddenly left and the founding um one of

The co-founders is now back in that CEO Spot but they're here still which I Think says something and if I'm not Mistaken they're profitable now yeah That's the claim at least I mean this is A privately held company so there's only So much that we can see into their Financials but but yes that's that's the Claim they've also you know hit some Milestones in terms of number of miles They shared a metric 11 million miles Across neighborhoods and campuses and Some 80 locations across Europe and the US making six million deliveries I do Think it's important to note that you Have to kind of put that next to like Maybe what Amazon does which is you know In the billions Amazon in 2023 made well Over two billion deliveries so we're not At the same level here I will say I will Say that the idea of these sidewalk Robots to me is much Less if offensive is the word than Self-driving Vehicles you know sidewalk Yay not on the streets I like that I I Do think it's it's a cool concept I was Amused by one of the comments at the end Of the story where a reader commented About having seen these on a campus and Seeing two of them hit each other head On and just kind of like sitting there Face to face for over 10es minutes I the Visual was funny anyway I I think I Think it's a cool concept and it's it's

Kind of like yeah I know it's far way Much less than Amazon but no startup's Going to get to the scale of Amazon and You know what good good for this company It's plugging on it's seems to be Growing and doing well in a challenging Space and iner did a great job of Reporting on it first of all first of All those two robots were not stuck that Is a rarely seen mating ritual of Sidewalk robots out in the wild so let's Not let shame other species here next on National Geographic right right I will Say that there's one interesting change In the company's not business model but Where they're focusing so you know when I have reported on them in the past it Was very much very us Centric they had They came from Estonia and it wasn't That they were ignoring that but it just Seemed very much a focus on us but that What they told ingred was that they're Actually starting to go deeper into Europe which it will be interesting to See what cities and where they go um are They going to do the University business Model are they're going to do something Else so remains to be seen but I do Think it's interesting that they're I'm Not going to say pulling back from us But certainly like paying a little bit More attention to Europe yeah and plus I Mean so many companies I've been hearing About lately that are based in Europe

Seem to want to grow or expand in the US So it is a little bit counter to that That Narrative yeah yeah also I I just want To say like like my parents are not the Most technology forward people and They're you know in their 70s now and so You don't expect them to be you know on Tik Tok but they have a soft spot for These robots on the local University Campus of my hometown and to me that Bodess very well for these things doing Well I'll just say that I find it very Ironic that Maryanne wants the robots on The sidewalk to be driven by uh AI but Not the several ton SUVs which 16-year-olds are clearly clearly ready To drive on their own at high speeds CU That that is the peak of I think Efficiency and safety and that's where We should put our children out on their Small bicycles without helmets all right Moving on Ambience healthc care raised $70 million this is my deal of the week I'm trying to figure out where we're Going to see AI find the most purchase Inside of the world that we live in and One place we've heard a lot about AI Usage over time has been in places like Healthc Care Imaging you know if you're Taking a look at several hundred scans You might miss something that might be a Place where AI sits this is not that This is instead an attempt to bring

Modern AI Technologies and attack the Administrative AKA paperwork side of Healthcare which I think is brilliant Because one thing we don't have enough Of is enough Healthcare Professionals in Both the nursing and Doctor roles and so If we can make those people more Efficient we can essentially unlock more Productivity from them and so to me this Is brilliant Maryann I I know you've Been done a lot of medical paperwork in The last couple of years so I'm curious What's your take on this this push I'm With you I love this application of AI I Think it's one of the most promising and Important ones that we've talked about If you've had a loved one or yourself Been hospitalized anytime recently you Will know a few things one there is a Massive shortage of nursing staff of Staff in general communication is not Great I have personally found that even If something isn't quote someone's Record very few people have the time to Look through an entire ire record of a Patient things are missed all the time I Saw this with my mother recently she was Not given a very important medication She needed hence delaying her recovery By weeks all sorts of things all sorts Of real world examples I could bring up So the idea of AI coming in and making Things easier not only helps the staff It helps patients who who are suffering

They're the ones that are paying the Price of all these things so I love this I love this company I'm excited about it It's raised 70 million In a series B co-led by Kleiner Perkins And open AI startup fund so let's go Ambience Healthcare I had a technical Question Alex and I don't know how deep You got into this but so this is Providing an operating system for Healthcare organizations so how is this Different from like any other software And also importantly better than Existing administrative software out There well I know this mostly from Watching my spouse who works in the Healthcare profession so I know what Current tool looks like in terms of what She has to go through and a lot of this Boils down to EMR systems so electronic Medical records which are run by a Couple of major companies in this Country including epic which is not epic Games as an epic games like store and so Forth it's the other epic the less epic Epic you might say the thing that I'm Very excited about here is one the Partnership with open AI I think tells Us probably where they're getting their Models so we're dealing with cutting Edge stuff I doubt open AI would invest In them and then send them over to Gemini Ultra from alphabet for example So we know the place where this stuff

Has to work we know the models that are Being used and we know the work that's Required the thing that I think makes it Different than other bits of software is That it's built tools for different Parts of the doctor's experience or the Nurse's experience so it has a way to Analyze past conversations it has a way To look at after buit summaries and so They they appear to have taken Ai and Then applied it to specific Tasks in the medical world and to me I Think that focus is super cool because I Don't think you could build an AI tool Today that does everything but I do Think different applications that add up To something quite large hence the OS Point is very interesting and and Potentially awesome yeah it it looks Like there's almost like you said an Application that is analyzing past Conversations one that is supposed to Improve handoffs between Specialists That's a really important one after Visit summaries and so all that looks Really compelling you know one of the Downsides of AI has been is there a Potential for hallucination or you know That risk so the way that this is Confined is that even a risk like could It introduce a hallucination or is this The latest example of using Freer Ranging AI but in such a limited way That it would prevent that from

Happening okay so I'm going to go over My skis here and I may sound very stupid So if everyone listening to this is Better at AI than I am feel free to mock Me send me a tweet but Ambience Healthcare is not alone in pursuing this Kind of like doctor co-pilot AI strategy So there's a lot of people working on This I don't know who's going to get it Right first but remember when open AI Announced that you could build your own GPT one thing that I tried there was Uploading my own information so Essentially you can go and kind of like Give it stuff and then it'll have that In its I don't know brain or whatever What I found when I was tinker with this Is it's Very focused on using what you bring to It versus trying to invent something so I uploaded some of my blog posts and Tried to make it like an Alex GPT and it Was very focused on just pulling from The information I had given it so when I Gave it three articles and then asked it A question about Metallica it was like Interesting question have you heard About SAS gross Margins so it was pretty anti-h Hallucinatory in fact it was almost like A little boring so I I think that at Least what I have seen in the AI world When it comes to Bringing proprietary Data to these models it does seem that

In those cases Hallucination is less of A risk not a zero risk not trying to say It's been obviated but I don't think It's quite the same thing as we've seen When it comes to like inventing legal Briefs and so forth so we'll we'll have To see clearly K that's one of the key Questions that we have about this but We'll see how how it unveils I don't Think Kleiner Perkinson open AI would be Putting this much Capital into the Company if they didn't have some answer To that so we'll see how place out now We have to take a very short break but When we come back Latin America and why It startups aren't getting the respect They Deserve is your company planning to go Public or conduct a shareholder Liquidity program within the next 18 to 24 months did you know that proactively Planning for your next private company Liquidity event or IPO can help you Maintain greater control over timelines And outcomes Morgan Stanley at work Believes that when you you have the Right technology and systems in place Working in harmony leading up to a Transaction you can prepare and execute With more accuracy and ease visit Morganstanley.com Assessment to connect with their issuer Strategy and Excellence team for a free Assessment to find out if your company

Is transaction ready again that's Morganstanley.com Assessment to get your free assessment Today marann if there's one thing you Love besides fintech it's Latin America And we have a grip of data on Latin American software companies and I have Many many thoughts about this but I want You to walk us into it well Anaheim who Does a brilliant job of covering the Region unpacked SAS startups in Latin America and how they're different from Their us peers her findings were Unsurprising to me as someone who's been Covering the region for a few years now There are you know some differences in The startup ecosystems in both regions Primarily the the availability of Capital in Latin America even though Things have changed And there was this Rush of capital to The region a few years ago it's still Not nearly as accessible there as it is Here as a result companies there do tend To operate in a much more lean Manner And that's reflected in the SAS world as Well according to Anna interestingly she Found something related to customer Acquisition cost payback for example she Says in latam it typically is about 32% Lower than their us benchmarks and in One case it was a dramatic difference She compared two companies in the same Space and one was I think 79 months of a

CAC payback that's for docu sign and Then a company called click sign had a CAC payback of 5.6 months so anyway I'll Stop there but lots of interesting Points that Anna made those points are Really interesting to me those data Points and I'm wondering what is the Primary driver is it just because Because there isn't as much money going Towards these startups they have to They're forced to create very efficient Business models or is there something Else at play I mean that seems like the Obvious one but is there anything else Happening I think that's the primary Driver and I talked to new bank's CEO Last year for Equity actually on a very Similar subject about the fact that in Latin America it's different the ups and Downs and the economies companies are Kind of always braced for the worst they Operate that way like that the worst Could happen at any time they they're Not operating under their assumption That they just go out and raise more Money so they do they do tend to have More Runway another point that Anna Found she said that the median latinam Company with more than 1 million ARR Still has 15 months longer Runway than Their us counterpart so yeah I think That I think that's the main driver Kirsten it may seem too obvious and Simple but it's I believe it's reality

One of the more interesting examples was This Argentine startup that's hoping to Disrupt through the construction space And for a company in Argentina to be Operating successfully is really Interesting because inflation is Absolutely insane I think it has one of The highest inflation in the world and So it's not just dealing with small Amounts of money or less money than then Say their counterparts in the US us but Also runaway inflation and some other Volatile economic conditions right Exactly and I again I think because that Is something that that you see a lot Unfortunately in Latin America and Brazil has had similar issues these Companies kind of just they're not as Shocked you know they're not as shocked By them as we are in the US when Something even you know when interest Rates go up and everyone freaks out I Feel like in lat am they're just like Okay it's another you know another case Of crazy inflation we'll deal with it Keep going I I think that's a really Great way to think about it because what Have people been screaming from the tops Of every building in tree since we Started to raise rates in the US which Is we need to stop raising rates this is Not good for business they must come Back down what are you doing stop stop Stop stop stop I think we kind of have a

Bias in the us towards the expectation Of an incredibly business friendly Climate and strong economic growth as The Baseline that's just a cultural moat Versus in Latin America there might be a Little bit more anticipation of tougher Times for business so that all makes Good sense to me I have some other Hypothesis though about why this is the Case why we're seeing startups in Latin America have better SAS metrics I wonder If their social media channels are as Stuffed for example I mean there was a Period of time when you could buy ads on Facebook that were relatively cheap and Then Instagram was relatively cheap all That's been kind of like gamed out in The US market which is why it's very Expensive to grow here it may be the Case that those channels are less gamed Out down there and therefore it's easier To acquire customers less expensively Which might be a kind of secular Advantage to Latin American software Companies my question Maryann though is You know you and I have written about Together the rise of Latin American Focus venture capital and the decline of Latin American Focus venture capital but Given these numbers it seems like a I Don't know if I had if I had a $10 Million fund and I had to pick a market It seems like you can make a lot of Money betting on these very efficient

Latin American SAS companies compared to Their us Peers yeah I mean you know I would agree With that and numbers are down but they Are also down everywhere in the world so 2023 according to CBE insights uh Latin American startups raised $3.3 billion Across 819 deals that compares to 7.5 Billion over, 1413 deals in 2022 Interestingly though last year 83% of Those deals were early stage well that's Is are you saying that's good or bad Well I mean I actually think it's good That shows there's still a lot of Promise and potential and um investors See that potential absolutely you could Also flip the coin and say that shows a Dir of late stage Capital availability In the Latin American Market but that Actually does Point towards these Companies being essentially Break Even To profitable is per an a story because If you don't have an ability to go out And raise a $100 million series D check You probably want to make sure that You're not burning too much Capital so You can self fund doesn't mean that Exits will be as frequent as people Might want but does imply that startups There are more durable for any kind of Economic change or or potential downturn So I I don't know there's been a period Of time in which SAS has been too much An American and northern European

Phenomena but now we're seeing it really Do better in in big markets of CLA America and India and so I I think it's Pretty cool to see the kind of not the Yasif foration of the world but the sfic Of the World I'm so proud of that I could Literally explode I can tell I can see It in your face oh man um Kirsten uh on The last point about Latin America I Know there were a bunch of scooter Companies that blew up down there back When bird and lime were also taking off In the US did those companies have a Similar trajectory as um some of their North American counterparts I am less Clear about what's going on the mobility Market these days down there and it's a Good reminder to get back into it but There was a period of time where a lot Of it was around like the sharing piece But also was like very much connected to Either subscriptions or like even a Financials angle to it and I was getting A lot of inbound let's say preco and That has definitely fallen off but is That really reflective of what's Happening in the marketplace I I don't Necessarily think so there was a recent Report that came out and I'm not sure Maran if you have any insight if you've Seen like specific not just Mobility Which is what I focus on but specific Categories of where SAS is being applied

More well obviously in fintech is my Where I'm going to be noticing the most Yeah I am seeing it applied more there Honestly I can't speak to other uh Industries as much well we'll be able to Know when the growth in SAS has reached It's Zenith when we start to hear about Subscription fatigue in Latin America as We do up here in the US for example I Think that's when things have been Overly subscription ised now to close Off kson you had a very interesting Thesis about the rise and fall of Advertising dollars and what that means For the broader economy and we're going To use that as a segue to talk about Some tech earnings and also the state of Startups okay oh you're just handing me The mic okay so I get the platform thank You thank you well we were talking about This earlier this week because you know We were looking at different earnings Snap and we were talking about meta and One of the things that we were talking About is like how they had very Different results and what was pushing That forward or why was that happening And I was reminded of something I Learned very early on back in the Great Recession days which is one of the first Things that companies get rid of when There is uncertainty in the economy is Advertising it is considered a leading Indicator of of a recession even

Oftentimes looked at before there's an Official recession which is multiple Quarters of falling growth and that's Kind of what we've seen in one case but Not in the other case it advertising is Also interesting in that it's one of the Last things to come back even when an Economy is recovering so it's a leading Lagging indicator in in a lot of ways Where you could have a scenario in which Companies cut back they cut back on Advertising first then ultimately Usually what happens is that then job Cuts happen and other Cuts happen and Efficiencies but then even as an economy Recovers or you start to feel more Confident about what you think the Economy is going you still hold off on Those advertising dollars the question Is what is happening as it relates to Meta versus snap because it seems like Advertising has returned for one and not So much for the other yeah so you know Tech rench cares about startups we are Not CNBC we don't aspire to become CNBC But we also can't not pay attention to At least a subset of the performance of The major tech companies so when meta Rolls out a set of numbers that blows The socks off of Wall Street and starts To drop a dividend it makes it seem like The advertising Market is back because What does Facebook make the most of its Dollars from well selling those

Advertisements next to your feed and so Forth but then there's the case of snap And snap is a smaller social company I Think they call themselves a camera Company but let's just call them a Social media company because that's I Think a bit more fair and they had a Disastrous set of earings they lost About 30% of their market cap in a Single day so how to kind of figure out What's going on here I think the way That I think about this is that every Tech company eventually starts doing ads In some way or form because they end up With enough scale in terms of consumer Or Enterprise eyeballs that they can't Not because it's too lucrative um this Is why Microsoft has an ads business Amazon isn't ads business Apple makes Money off of ads but snap might just be Too small to catch the same Tailwinds of Meta Kirsten if that's fair yeah I think It's absolutely fair but and I also Wonder about just demographics yes Exactly what I was Thinking well I'll I'll hand it over to You Mian but I do think demographics Might matter here and I I'll Cee you up By this Facebook I think has an aging Demographic compared to snap and then I'll hand it to you that's a diplomatic Way of describing it I think that Facebook has actually been I don't know If criticizes the word but or slammed

Even for being um a social media Platform for older people whatever you Want to say snap historically has Focused its main users are much younger People so I actually as a person who is Maybe perhaps considered a little older I'm not like some huge fan of Facebook Or meta but but hey I mean don't Discount older people as used users Because meta's coming back it seems like And I don't know if it's all ad Revenue Driving it it's kind of a comeback story For meta I feel sort of bad for snap I Can't articulate why my my main Experience with SNAP is just seeing my Children use really funny hilarious Filters and and we laugh at them yeah The advertising Market is is it's almost Too big to discuss with just such an Umbrella term cuz we're talking about Television advertising brand advertising Outdoor Advertising digitally targeted Advertising in remainder advertising Programmatic advertising there's just a Bunch of things but what Facebook as Part of the meta world has is an Enormous chunk of the world using the Services insanely powerful granular Targeting tools and multiple categories Of of ads or different types because Like what you see on Instagram is not Quite the same thing as you see on Facebook which is not quite the same Thing you see elsewhere in The Meta

World if you will whereas snap has more Of a single platform more of a single Target demo and so I I guess when you Think about recovery and AD spending I'm I maybe it's not surprising that the Older leaning social network platform is Doing better than the more unified child Focused service yeah I mean and let's Face it children and teens may want to Buy a lot of things but they don't Always have the money to do so truth When I was a teenager I had no money at All and that lasted into my 20s and I Was by a terrible advertising candidate Because all I could afford was psed and That was a sad time in my life now Looping this back there to kon's point About economics meta's results and I Would say other data points from Tech Earnings so far are I I would say net Positive for advertising so kisten does That imply to you an economic recovery That we might be able to consider for The broader Tech ecosystem when it comes To spend so this has been the weirdest Economic recovery status I've I think Been in my adult life the recession was Wild and it was wild as a reporter but This one is very odd because people feel Generally bad poor forecasting of the Economy and do not feel well suited in It and yet unemployment is the lowest It's been in decades consumer spending Is up and job growth is up except for

The tech sector so it's hard for me to Make a projection because uh humans are Involved in human behavior but I would Say this it seems as if in the tech Sector you almost have to treat it as a Completely separate Entity than how the rest of the economy Is operating right now like we're still Seeing layoffs I do see let's say Glimmers and light of positivity on the Financial front for the tech sector but Will I go as far as to say that there Will not be a stepping back and forth a Little bit of a roller coaster um I'm Not I'm not confident enough to say that I think that one company's earnings Isn't really enough to make that Projection but let's see how everything Goes I would say that the first half of The year is going to be really Critically important about how the whole Tech sector is doing I agree and what You outlined there was essentially what People are calling the vibe session Which is that the Vibes are bad even if The economy is kind of okay we don't Have time to dig into kind of Pop Economic analysis on the show sadly Because that would be an absolute treat But I'll just wrap this up by saying This The advertising picture like I said I do Think is net positive even though we did See some weakness at snap and I think

Parts of Google's earnings were quite What kind of the street expected but When you mix in a net positive Advertising forecast which the positive Economic Vibes that brings with it and What we're seeing on the AI front Involving price points demand and impact On earnings to me I do think that we are Starting this year on a firmer footing Than last year from the technology Industry perspective and that boats well For both tech companies large and small So I'm kind of bullish and I wanted to End on a positive note so that's where We'll leave it there if you don't agree With us well you know keep your cynical Hat on and keep tweeting about how the Uh GDP numbers are fake like everyone Else's it's a lot of fun all right we Have to leave it there Kirsten Maran Thank you so much as always for being on The show and if you want even more from The equity crew we are Equity pod over On X and threads and if you're into Short for video we are doing some Experiments over on Tik Tok under the Handle Tech runch pods we're back on Monday this is equity goodbye bye Equity is hosted by myself Alex Wilhelm And Tech rench senior reporter Mary an Aeto we are produced by Teresa loans Solo with editing by Kell Bryce Durban Is our illustrator and a big thank you To the audience development team and

Henry pette who manages Tech wrench Audio products thank you so much for Listening and we'll talk to you next Time