The future of defense funding with Founders Fund’s Trae Stephens | StrictlyVC LA

I get to sit down with Trey Stevens who I met for the first time in person last Year at a conference for military Veterans um Trey is like myself a native Ohioan uh and uh he went to the Georgetown foreign School of service Worked in the government briefly or I Guess maybe not so briefly um and Trey We wanted to come on up here um from What I understand got sort of frustrated One day when paler came and pitched uh Your boss and and uh so you basically Said I'm out of here went to paler spent Six years there and then was recruited By Peter teal where he is at Founders Fund and also co-founded andrel so thank You thank You thank you for having yeah yeah yeah No no my Pleasure and I just found out um well I'd seen the brand in passing and I Guess did you bring it out with you oh No no oh yeah I I just found out also That Trey has yet another company as if He's not busy enough that he co-founded Called Soul um and I just thought maybe The crowd here would be interested in Knowing this this is a reader that Weighs um not much more than a pair of Sunglasses you want to explain a little Bit about what it is if you don't mind I Just think it's so cool sure yeah um So as some of you might know my Co-founder at uh andil is Palmer lucky

Who is the inventor of oculus and uh Early in the early days of coming Together with the idea of Ander I Mentioned to him that I really wanted to Be able to read in VR but the form Factor doesn't really work that well Because it's really heavy short battery Life um the eye tracking is not a a Great thing when you're moving your head Trying to stay focused on a page of Reading um and so um single-purpose Computing is really cool um as kind of Jesse just alluded to as well I think The rabbit is awesome uh the idea behind This is that it's literally just an E-reader that you wear and so you know It weighs about as Connie said it weighs About the same as a pair of glasses um And you can kind of flip through the Pages uh with a little with a little Remote and that's that's the soul reader He he let me put them on I think they're So cool um and $350 is uh but a very a long 15,000 People on the wait list but anyway if You're interested as I am um it's Soul Reader.com so so reader.com yeah anyway I'm sure we'll be hearing more about That so thank you um in the meantime We're here to talk about andril and Founders fund I thought we could start With Founders fund because I know that We've got investors in the audience and They're always really curious to

Understand how investors operate and Think I did catch Brian singer's um uh Appearance yesterday at at um upfront Summit and he talked a little bit about What makes Founders fund different um no Board seats uh no reserves for funding For for for companies you would rather Just invest that money in the company And and another fund which I think is Makes sense to me I know for a long time That was sort of frowned upon and I'm Not really sure why anymore um what Other ways do you think that Founders Fund is somewhat different from Traditional Venture funds yeah I would Say that our our name is actually Illustrative of this um the the reason We're called Founders fund is that we're A fund for Founders um not that we're All founders ourselves although many of Us are um and the reason we think this Is important is that we are founder Absolutists we don't generally take Board seats we are on some boards but a Probably like a single digigit Percentage of our portfolio companies Maybe low single-digit percentage um and We always vote with Founders and at the Point that a company no longer has a Founder as CEO we are out we don't Invest in non-founder Le businesses um And I I think that really motivates us To behave in different ways where um we Are aligned and you know founder

Friendly is kind of a cliche term at This point like every VC claims that They're founder friendly um but I think That in practice being founder friendly Means sometimes taking unpopular Positions uh even if you think that it Puts the business in an awkward place And that that's something that we're Always happy to do and I know there's Sort of like a strong debate culture There too and it's so how does how does This decision to get made because I I've Read about this and I talked years ago With Canan banister who was in and out Of Founders fund um and I know there was Sort of like a tipping point at which You know like some some things you can Get done on your own some things you Have to kind of like run up the chain Where like what are the do you mind Talking about those th thresholds or how That works yeah I think the culture of Debate is the right one so we don't have Monday partner meetings and the reason For that is that often times when you Have process in the way that you get a Deal done like maybe an associate finds The deal a principal meets with it they Move it up to the partners the partners Bring it into the partner meeting to Meet with the general Partners you you Tend to make a lot of like very mediocre Investments because you have kind of a You know a confirmation bias like well

If it made it this far maybe it's like Good enough for at least a small check Or something like that Founders fund is Very high conviction driven and so we You can't get an investment through the Team if you're not super super high Conviction banging the table I would Stake my career on this deal and the Value of that is that we probably have The same number as any Venture fund of Of you know dogs of the stuff that just Doesn't work at all um but we have a lot More of the ones that work really really Big um and I think you don't want to Have a bunch of the stuff in the middle You don't want to have the ones that Maybe you get your money back maybe you Get 2x your money back but because you Haven't concentrated into your winners It ends up dragging your irr down and so We're really focused on concentrating as Much of the fund as we can into the best Companies in any give him fund um and we Think that that's what drives multiples And this is what Brian was saying we Don't hold reserves well we don't hold Reserves because we want to take Whatever Capital we have in the fund and Double it back into the companies that Are working the most in in every Cycle I don't really again I don't Really understand why that has not Always been the case because just Listening to Brian yesterday that makes

A lot of sense to me I mean I think the Old school thinking was that maybe a VC Would mark up their own deal but I feel Like that happens now anyway um across You know everybody's funds um I did want To ask quickly we were talking a minute Ago about Keith Keith was part of the Kind of committee um with Brian and and And Peter um and this is you know Gossipy but I talked to Keith when he Left and he said he was thinking about Finding doing his own fund and then he Said you know kosla reached out and it Was made more sense and then Subsequently I saw in the journal that It was he was already on his way out of Founders fund because of like some some Sort of conflict can you address that Because I thought it was interesting to See in the journal it felt like somebody Had said Something yeah I I think that everyone Kind of has their own style and at Founders fund one of the benefits that Really comes down from Peter from the Very beginning when we were first Founded about 20 years ago is that Everyone should run their own strategy We don't have a single strategy um you Know I do Venture in a different way Than Brian does venture it's different Than the way that Napoleon who runs our Growth fund does venture and that's good Because we get different looks that we

Wouldn't otherwise get by having people Executing these different strategies Keith had a very different strategy he Had a very specific strategy that was Very Hands-On very engaged um and I Think that kosa is a really good fit for That um and obviously he was there Before he came to Founders fund and um I Think I'm really happy that he found a Place where he feels like he has a team That can back him up in in that Execution that's really interesting Because I have seen you in the past talk About really not necessarily wanting de Back Founders who really need a lot of Handholding essentially I mean I think Maybe you had said Founders that sort of Desperately need their VCS is not Something like that not the business That you want to be in so maybe there's Maybe that's yeah I think the obviously The ideal case for a VC is is you have a Founder that is going to be really good At running their own business and There's some Unique Edge that you can Provide to help them running their Business um the reality is is that that Usually is not the case usually the Investors that think they're the most Value added are the most annoying and Difficult to deal with and so the more That a Founder says I'm value or the More that a VC says I'm going to add Value the more you should hear them say

I'm going to annoy the ever- living crap Out of you for the rest of the time that I'm on the cap table and I think it's Really bad and so I think our approach Is more you know we are going to invest In the company because we believe that That founder or that group of Founders Are the people that are going to grow This business if we believe that we Founders fund or necessary to make the Business work we should be investing in Ourselves not in the founders and so in Some ways the VCS that say they're the Most value added are actually Telegraphing to the founders that they Think they're bad and that actually the Thing that's going to make make them Good is taking money from them rather Than someone else and I think that's Kind of a betrayal of the Entrepreneurial spirit that you should Be having in the tech industry um you Know one other thing with Keith that I Thought was so fascinating so much ink Was spilled over him going to Miami and Then now you know coming back uh in a Part-time capacity with Coastal Ventures But you and I had talked last week and You said that really the the bulk of Founders funds team is in the Bay Area I Mean you're you're in Costa Mesa some Members are still two people are still In Florida but I thought that I don't Think people realize that I think that

The firm really like up up and and left The Bay Area yeah we did not uh the vast Majority of the team is still in San Francisco I will say this so when Um but right before Facebook started um Peter uh Peter teal who's one of my Partners that is the founder of Founders Fund uh he gave a speech at Stamford and He said that the next trillion tech Company or some variation of that is Going to be founded within 10 miles of This room and he was right and he was The first investor in Facebook um and This is by the way something all of you Should know about Peter when Peter says Something don't disagree with him he's Always right even if you even he if he Thinks he might be wrong he ends up Being right it's incredibly annoying um But uh you know that he was he it was a True statement it turns out that in that In that you know vintage Tech was really centered around the Bay Area and even when I joined Founders Fund 10 years ago it was really a a Bay Area game Silicon Valley was still the Dominant Force um I think if you look at Fund five which is the fund that I Entered at Founders fund um something Like 60 to 70% of our investments were Bay Area companies if you look at fund Uh s which is the last ventage um the Majority of the companies were X Bay Area they were they were not in the Bay

Area and so I think that the the Miami Office you know the whatever people Thought was like Founders fund Relocating to Miami that was never the Case um the idea was that if things are Geographically Distributed we should have people on our Team that are closer to the other things That are interesting and it turns out That there's a lot of stuff going on in The Eastern seab board whether that's Miami or Atlanta has a has a buring tech Culture Washington DC there are some Interesting companies that are at least Operationally doing stuff there New York City Canada like there's a lot of things That are a 5H hour flight from San Francisco but are a two-hour flight from Miami and so we do have a couple of People on our investment team that are Based there I think they are doing a Great job they're not exclusively Looking at Miami tech companies um one Thing that Peter said years ago maybe This was like in 2015 when everybody was Talking about autonomous cars was that Everybody was over indexing on Autonomous cars and under indexing on Telecommuting which of course I think Ended up to be true to some extent um Okay also sort of obnoxious question but Then Keith again today was at up front Summit talking and he told Alex Conrad Of Forbes that he thinks I don't even

Remember exactly what the full context Was basically that people in the Bay Area are lazy compared with other Markets they're not willing to work 9 To9 they're not willing to work Saturdays um I guess two things do you Agree and also do you think a Founder Should be working those hours does that Make sense to You I'll answer this question by telling A Story So I I as you mentioned I used to work For the government in the government When you speak publicly the goal is to Say as many words as possible without Saying anything and Generals are Exceptionally good at doing this they Could sit on the stage for 30 minutes Talking and it's just like the teacher From Charlie Brown like they're not Saying anything they're just saying a Set of words that have been accepted to Be you know okay by their PR teams Keith Is really good at saying things that Journalists ask about later and that's Actually good that's good for Keith he Made us talk about him here on stage he He wins I I think the reality is there Aren't enough people in the world that Say things that people remember that are Worth talking about later and so my goal For the rest of this 11 minutes and 53 Seconds is to find something that I can

Say that someone will ask about later Today or tomorrow can you believe Trey Said that I think I've got a question For that but that comes up later um I Did want to ask you though okay so this Question is something that is probably Sort of obvious but also you talk about VC's um you know not adding a lot of Value and yet as a founder and a Co-investor you work with a lot of VCS So um if they are more involved with Companies how does that I mean I guess You know for example andreon herwitz is An andal it's a big investor how do you Think their model is so very different From yours I mean maybe it's not more Hands-On but it's very sprawling it's They do take board seats I guess is that Just kind of like the cost of doing Business do you privately think like Other VCS don't really you Know yeah value I think different VCS Might appeal to different Founders um I Think I think some Founders really like The idea of a really Hands-On kind of Mentor um other Founders don't and you Know I think we have a great track Record inside of our portfolio in Particular of capturing these kind of Lightning and bottle Founders that They're maybe their prior experience With VCS their prior experience with Board members is quite negative um and They decide that they want someone

Around the table that's going to support Them and let them run the ship um I know That some of my portfolio companies are Actually in the room right now so I hope That nothing that I'm saying right now Is making you feel like you're not Supported I love you Both um you know I wanted to ask about Another portfolio Company open AI which Congratulations I guess on getting U um Some of that company so back to Keith He's the one who told me this a while Ago that he's winning right now he's Winning Keith is winning he's always Winning um but uh you know that you Bought secondary shares as did a lot of Other people they just had this you know Another second secondary sale um a lot Of open AI employees now have made a lot Of money which is great but I do Wonder As an investor if that worries you and Also if you've got a stance on When is too soon if it's ever too soon Um for a company to sort of Dole out Secondary shares to or or let their Employees sell their Shares yeah uh I think the reality is in Tech um the competition for talent is Really Fierce and companies want their Employees to believe that their Equity Has real monetary value and so obviously It would be bad if you said you can sell 100% of your Equity your vested Equity But I think at a fairly early stage it's

Probably a good idea to say look you've Got 100,000 shares vested maybe you can Sell 5 or 10% of that every year in a Company facilitated tender so that you Feel like when you're being compensated With Equity that's real and that's part Of your total comp package um so I think It's it's it's a good thing obviously With Founders this is a little different Like you don't want Founders cashing out In big chunks from their own companies Um I'm not worried about this with open AI I think Sam is doing just fine Without any open AI tender um and I Think the executive team there is is Quite the same the the head of research For example at open aai who's less Well-known but very important in the Business is Bob McGrew Who was the Director of engineering at paler prior To my co-founder the CEO at androll Brian schimp um and you know Bob has He's fine as well I don't think he's Like in the position where he needs to See that Equity as real comp I guess I I Get it and Sam right I don't think I Mean so those two are not doing it for Financial reasons they don't have to but I guess it's just the scale is so Different so you know even when we were Seeing some startups during the um Pandemic C you know like 7 billion Companies giving their employees money But here you're talking about like an

$85 billion valuation so like a 5 to 10% Stake is actually worth a lot but but Still you don't yeah I I mean I I think If you start seeing that there's a Performance degradation related to People checking out because they have Too much liquidity well then yeah that Becomes a pretty serious problem um I Don't I haven't seen that happen at open Aai I feel like they're all super Mission motivated to you know get to AGI And um that that's a really meaty Mission that might not by the way work As well at like a boring Enterprise SAS Company where people are like I don't Really care about this I'm going to make My money and I'm going to leave like I I Think being Mission motivative Definitely helps yeah I know how you Feel about boring SAS companies not a Huge fan um so speaking of things that Are not boring SAS companies SpaceX is One of your Investments uh neural link is one of Your Investments are you in any other Musk related companies now are you in Boring we're in boring company we're in Neuralink we're in SpaceX are you an ex No no no no okay no No um I guess I just wanted to ask You're in the business of Elon Musk as Anybody I guess would would want to be Who's an investor but are you worried About him are you worried about a

Breaking point because as we all sort of Have a little bit more transparency into His dayto day or we feel like we do Sometimes I think there is a Concern I'm not personally concerned I Think you know Elon is one of the most Unique and generational talents uh that I I think I'll see for the rest of my Life and you know there's always Tradeoffs right like you know at some IQ Point you go above that and the Trade-offs become quite severe and you You start having all sorts of other Issues that are going on in your life um And Elon has a set of tradeoffs he's Incredibly intense he will outwork Anyone he's brilliant he's able to Organize the a lot of stuff in his brain Um and there are going to be other parts Of life that suffer um I think that's Probably the case with me too like uh Not in the same way as Elon but maybe I'm like too extroverted I'm too nice uh And that causes me pain in other areas So I'm not really concerned about Elon I Think you know uh he has proven his Doubter is wrong over and over again and Um I guess most if there are other VCS In this room I think a lot of people Have seen Their portfolios be pretty significantly Impacted by him being a a once in a Generation character yeah um I do want To talk to about andrel which I think is

Such a fascinating company and such an Increasingly important company um I uh You know you're building autonomous Vessels autonomous aircraft uh I read in A government trade magazine last year That the Tech some of your Tech can allow a Single operator to control hundreds of Of drones at once um I guess can you Give us AE preview of anything that You're working on so I know the Road Runner came out not that long ago this Vall that can carry various uh different Payloads um you are very involved in the Day-to-day I mean more so than I Realized before we were sort of talking About this interview if anything that You can share would Be yeah so the kind of the nature of Andril and what we're doing there is That um the the the threat that we're Facing globally is very different than It was in the you know 2000 through 20 2020 where we were primarily talking About non-state actors terrorist Organizations Insurgent groups Rogue States things like that um and it looks More like a uh Cold War conflict against Near-peer adversaries great powers and The way that we engaged with great power Conflict during the Cold War was by Building these really expensive Exquisite systems nuclear deterrents Aircraft carriers multi hundred million

Doll aircraft uh these Exquisite missile Systems systems that are very expensive And we find ourselves in these conflicts Where our adversaries are showing up With lowcost to trable systems things Like you know a $100,000 Iranian Shahed Kamakazi drone or a $750,000 Turkish tb2 by ratar or you Know um rocket like simple rockets and Uh DJI drones With Grenades attached to Them with little gripper Claws and you Know our response to that historically Has been shoot A2 and A4 million our Patriot missile at it because that's What we have that's what's in our Inventory but this isn't a scalable Solution for the future so andreil at Andel we've looked at this problem since We were founded in 2017 and said how can We reduce the cost of engagement while Also removing the human operator the men And women who are you know serving Us in The battlefield removing them from the Threat of light loss of life from things That are dull dirty and dangerous and These capabilities are not Hardware Capabilities largely you know it's not Like building a really cool aircraft Carrier or building a sixth generation Man fighter plane this is about autonomy And autonomy is a software problem the Problem is as you pointed out before Um tech people get paid a lot of money Uh in successful tech companies and so

If you had the option of like going and Working in a concrete basement in Tucson Uh for $100,000 a year or getting paid a Half a million dollars a year bringing Your dog to work and eating free food in P pits at Google maybe you're going to Go work at Google instead um the Difference is is that during the Cold War our most talented people in the Disciplines that mattered whether it's Aerospace design radar design microwaves Radio communications they all worked With the defense department today and The capabilities that matter the most They're in ball pits at Google this Isn't really helpful and so andal Approached this and said we want to Build a company that's a softwar defined Defense contractor um that is Hardware Enabled and so we're bringing these Systems these autonomous systems that Are low cost that are uh that are Removing our men and women from Harm's Way and we're supplementing the existing Capabilities to create a continued Deterrent impact so that we avoid global Conflict so softwar defined Hardware Enabled versus Hardware defined software Enabled which is much less expensive Because the units are so much smaller is That basically it well it it's life Support systems are expensive building a Man fighter plane costs a lot more money Than building a drone um same thing for

Aircraft carriers you know if one Missile can destroy an aircraft carrier With 5,000 human lives on it uh you want To do things in a triable ways that Reduce the cost of life and the capital Cost of deploying these systems that Still allow you to demonstrate total Technological superiority on the Battlefield to the extent that you Prevent conflict from ever happening and So uh I mentioned to you I read read a Story recently where um someone had Talked to one of the primes as they're Called and they had kind of rolled their Eyes and they said these upstarts don't Know enough yet about mass production is That a concern for you or is are they Just thinking about what you're doing The wrong way no I mean quite frankly They're right um startups don't know how To do mass production um the primes also Don't know how to do mass production uh You can look at the Boeing 737 problem If you want some evidence of that um we Have no supply of stingler stingers Javelins himars gimmers Patriot missiles They can't make them fast enough and the Reason is they built these Supply chains And Manufacturing facilities that are More like the manufacturing facilities Of the c um to look at a kind of an Analogy to this um when Tesla went out To build at massive scale they said we Need to build an autonomous Factory from

The ground up to actually hit the demand Uh requirements for producing at a low Cost and at the scale that we need to Grow and GM looked at that and they said That's ridiculous this company will Never scale and then 5 years later it Was evident that they were just getting Absolutely smoked and so I think the Primes are saying this because it's the Defensive reaction that they would have To say these upstarts will never get it While I think andril is trying to build A Tesla that says no we're going to Build a modular autonomous Factory That's going to be able to keep up with The demand that the customer is throwing At us um and you know it's a big bet but We hired the guy that did it at Tesla His name is Keith Flynn he's now our Head of production and uh I think uh you Know we'll see where things go um you Know I did want to ask you quickly an Obvious question that I'm sure you also Get a lot is the danger of autonomous Systems so Sam Alman at one of these Events had told me years ago that that Was really his biggest fear when it Comes to AI so uh I wonder how you think About that Yeah there's there's a tech Implementation side of this and kind of A philosophical ethical side of it on The ethical side of it you Know throughout the course of human

History we've gotten more and more Violent right we started with like Punching each other and then hitting Each other with rocks and then Eventually we figured out medals and we Started making swords and bow and arrows And Spears and then we built catapults And trebuchets and then eventually we Got to the Advent of gunpowder and then We started dropping bombs on each other And then in the 1940s we reached the Point where we realized we had this Actually like Humanity destroying Capability in nuclear weapons um but Then everyone kind of stopped and we Stood around and we said it would not be Good to use nuclear weapons we can all Kind of agree we don't actually want to Do this um and if you look at the curve Of that violent potential it started Coming down during the Cold War where You have Precision guided Munitions if You need to take take out a Target can You shoot a missile through a window and Only take out the Target that you're Intending to take out we got much more Serious about intelligence operations so We could be more precise and more Discriminating in the the attacks that We delivered I think the reality is Autonomous systems are the the far reach Of that it's saying we want to prevent The loss of human life what can we do to Eliminate that to the extent possible to

Be absolutely sure that when we take Lethal action we're doing it in the most Responsible way possible how can we be Absolutely sure that this thing is not Going to have a malfunction how can we Be absolutely sure that we're not Dropping a bomb that's going to Accidentally blow up a school because we Didn't have the right intelligence so I Think more information and autonomy is The best possible Solution on the tech Implement implementation side of things People for a long time have said like You know we're really scared about fully Autonomous weapon systems we've had Fully autonomous weapon systems for 50 Years there are fully autonomous weapon Systems on aircraft carriers that that Do um counter air that they you know Detect something in the airspace and Then fire a bunch of bullets to try to Knock it out there's no human operator On those things so the question is about How are you employing these Technologies There are some situations where you'd Want to be sure that there's a human Operator that's in the loop making the Decisions there are other situations Where you do want a computer actually Doing the Fire Control to make sure that You take out the target before it hurts People um am I scared of Terminator sure There's some potential hypothetical Future where the AGI becomes sentient

And decides that we would be better off Making paper clips we're not close to That right now no one in the dod or any Of our allies and partners is talking About sentient AGI taking over the world And that being the goal of the dod um But in I think 2016 Vladimir Putin in a Speech to the Technical University in Moscow said he who controls AI controls Controls the world and so I think we Have to be very serious about Recognizing that our adversaries are Doing this they're going to be building Into this future and their goal is to Beat us to that and if they beat us to It I'd be much more concerned about that Terminator reality than if we in a Democratic Western Society were the ones That controlled the Edge speaking of Putin Ukraine Um what what is angel doing there uh We're deployed all over the World in Conflict zones including Ukraine um you Know you you go into a conflict with the Technology you already have not with the Technology you hope to have in the Future and so much of the technology That the United States the UK Germany That we sent over to Ukraine were Cold War era Technologies we were sending Them things that were sitting in Warehouses that we needed to get out of Our inventory as quickly as possible so

Ander roll's goal aside from supporting Those conflicts to the extent possible Is to build the capabil ilities that we Need to build to ensure that the next Time there's a conflict we have a big Inventory of stuff that we can deploy Very quickly to support our our allies So so are you like in Poland and Finland And Or uh I mean I'm not sure what I'm Allowed to disclose but we are deployed Globally in a number of different Conflict zones okay good because it Sounds like we're going to need help um I did on okay a couple of um a couple of Sort of Cornish questions but um um Sincere so I did want to ask you you You're privy to conversations that we Probably can't imagine between paler and Andril and SpaceX so I did want to I was Thinking about you I was watching this Terrible Julia Roberts movie on Netflix About like uh a Cyber attack that ends The world and I just wondered what what Is like in your survival kit like what Do you because I'm sure you do think About that right and is it in a Bunker uh I do have a bunker I can't can Confirm firm um what's in my survival Kit I I don't think I have any Interesting ideas here it's like you Know you want non- perishables you want A big supply of water it might not hurt To have some shotguns I don't know

Uh find your own bunker it turns out you Can buy cob War era missile silos that Make for great bunkers and there's one For sale right now in Kansas and I would Encourage any of you that are interested To check it out that is really wild um And last question I just wanted to ask I Mean you're obviously very passionate About this country you worked in Government service you work with Peter Teal who has thrown his resources behind A couple of people who've been elected At public office including now uh Senator JD Vance I just wondered if We'll ever see you run for Office I'm not personally opposed to the Idea but my wife who I love very much Said she would divorce me if I over ran For public office so the answer is a Strong now okay great Trey thank you so Much really so great to meet you and Spend time with you thank you