Speeding Up Crypto

TECHCRUNCH.com/EVENTS. JACQUELINE IS EXCITED ABOUT IT. SHE WRITES ABOUT CRYPTO. WITH THAT, I AM GOING TO BRING OUT OUR NEXT GUEST WHO IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE SOLANO BLOCK CHAIN. WARM WELCOME. [ APPLAUSE ] >> IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON STAGE. >> AWESOME TO BE HERE. >> YOU WERE JOKING ABOUT THIS IS THE LONGEST TIME YOU'RE GOING TO BE OFF TWITTER. WHICH I THOUGHT WAS HILARIOUS. I AM TOO. SOLANO WAS SUCCESSFUL IN 2021. EVERYONE HEARD ABOUT YOU. YOU'RE SORT OF THIS BLOCK CHAIN THAT EMERGED AND BROKE OUT. 2022 HAS BEEN A LITTLE HARDER, THOUGH, RIGHT? YOU'VE HAD SOME OUTAGES. IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGING LANDSCAPE FOR CRYPTO. GIVEN THAT, HOW ARE YOU PLANNING ON MAINTAINING THE RELEVANCE OF SOLANA? >> WE SEE USER NUMBERS STILL GROWING FOR CERTAIN TYPES. A NUMBER OF MINTS, I THINK, 500,000 MINTS A DAY. >> BUT TRADING VOLUMES ARE DOWN.

>> TRADING VOLUMES ARE DOWN AND THOSE I THINK DEPEND ON THE MACRO ENVIRONMENT. IT'S STILL ABOUT 20 MILLION A DAY. WHICH IS RIDICULOUS. IF YOU STEP BACK FOR A SECOND AND THINK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING, THESE ARE PICTURES OF CATS. RIGHT. THAT ARE TRADED $20 MILLION, $30 MILLION PER DAY ON PLATFORMS. WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT THAT IS THIS IS A BUSINESS MODEL, IT'S AN ENTIRE STAT TO MAKE BUSINESS ON THE WEB PURELY FROM DIGITAL CONTENT THAT DOES NOT RELY ON THE GOOGLE AD EXCHANGE OR FACEBOOK AD EXCHANGE. THIS IS I THINK A CLEAR PARADIGM SHIFT ON HOW YOU CAN MAKE MONEY ON THE WEB. IT'S ONE THAT'S REALLY STICKY DESPITE THE MARKET DOWNTURNS. DESPITE CRAZY BLOW-UPS AND HACKS LIKE LUNA OR WHATEVER. PEOPLE ARE STILL CREATING. PEOPLE ARE STILL FORMING COMMUNITIES AND TRADING AND STUFF LIKE THAT. >> AND WHAT GIVES YOU CONFIDENCE

THAT THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE? >> I DON'T KNOW IF THE NFTs ARE GOING TO SCALE TO HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF USERS. THIS IS LIKE THE BIG UNKNOWN. RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU LOOK AT CRYPTO, AT ITS PEAK WE HAD MAYBE 10 MILLION MONTHLY ACTIVE SIGNERS BETWEEN ALL THE BLOCK CHAINS COMBINED. THESE ARE FOLKS THAT INSTALLED SOME KIND OF WALLET. IT'S A PRETTY SMALL SET. 10 MILLION USERS. RIGHT NOW IT'S PROBABLY 2.5 MILLION. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR US TO GET TO 50 MILLION, 100 MILLION ACTUAL USERS THAT UNDERSTAND KEY PHRASES AND BIT 39 RECOVERY AND SECURING ALL THAT STUFF. >> RIGHT. WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE? >> THIS IS THE BIG QUESTION. AND I THINK THE WAY THAT WE THINK ABOUT IT IS THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKE SOMETHING THAT HIDES THE ELEMENTS OF SELF-CUSTODY. IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS SO GOOD THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO FIGURE IT OUT AND LEARN. >> INTERESTING.

>> WHEN WE SEE THAT, WE CAN THEN ACTUALLY FOCUS ON THE UAX CHALLENGES AND GET MORE PEOPLE TO ADOPT. BUT I THINK THE APPLICATIONS HAVE TO DRIVE ADOPTION. IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LET'S HIDE CRYPTO IN THE BACKGROUND AND ALL OF A SUDDEN EVERYONE'S A CRYPTO USER. >> IF YOU'RE WRONG ABOUT NFTs, HYPOTHETICALLY, THEN WHAT ELSE DO YOU THINK WILL DRIVE GROWTH IN THE ECOSYSTEM? >> LIKE WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE WRONG ABOUT NFTs? RIGHT NOW WE SEE THOSE ASSETS SPLIT OUT INTO A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT VERTICALS. SOME ARE BUILDING BRANDS LIKE HELLO KITTY. SOME ARE TRYING TO BUILD LORE. SOME ARE BUILDING GAMES. SOME ARE BUILDING SOCIAL NETWORKS. ALL OF THESE THINGS YOU IMAGINE. IN THE POST CRYPTO WORLD, ALL THOSE THINGS WILL EXIST. BUT THE STEPPING STONE THERE RIGHT NOW IS FOR START-UP IS POTENTIALLY MAKING NFT, THEN FIGURE OUT HOW TO BUILD ELEMENTS AROUND IT THAT CREATE SOCIAL NETWORK EFFECTS OR GAMING.

>> I KNOW YOU'RE EXCITED ABOUT NFTs, I KNOW THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE YOU'RE EXCITED ABOUT WHICH IS LAUNCHING THE SOLANA PHONE. TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT. >> YEAH. SO THIS IS KIND OF THE, YOU KNOW, I SPEND MOST OF MY YEAR AT QUALCOMM. AN APPLICATION ENVIRONMENT FOR YOU TO BUILD AMAZING EXPERIENCES FOR SIGNING, FOR DEALING WITH MIXED MEDIA, THAT SHOULD BE YOUR PRIMARY WALLET. NEITHER GOOGLE OR APPLE REALLY WANT TO TAKE THAT ON BECAUSE TRUE DIGITAL ASSET OWNERSHIP DISRUPTS THEIR BUSINESS MODELS. LIKE WHEN YOU'RE THE CONTENT CREATOR AND YOU HAVE AN APP ON THE IOS APP STORE, YOU CAN TAKE THE 30% FEE AND BASICALLY EAT IT AND GIVE IT TO APPLE. MAGIC EDEN CAN'T SELL A 10,000 IFT FOR 30,000. THEY CAN'T JUST ADD THAT TAX NOR EAT IT BECAUSE THAT WOULD BASICALLY DESTROY THEIR PROFITS. THIS IDEA OF TRUE DIGITSAL OWNERSHIPS MEANS THE DIGITAL ITEMS HAVE TO BE TREATED LIKE PHYSICAL ONES. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING APPLE OR GOOGLE ARE BUILT AROUND.

THEY'RE BUILT AROUND WHERE ALL THE CONTENT IS WHEN YOU BUY A VIDEO FROM AMAZON, YOU DON'T ACTUALLY OWN IT. EVERYONE REALIZES THAT. YOU DON'T REALLY OWN IT. >> WHEN YOU ANNOUNCED THE PHONE, IT'S A REALLY TOUGH BUSINESS TO BE IN. IT'S HARD TO LAUNCH A MOBILE PHONE. AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE SO MANY COMPANIES THAT TRIED TO DO IT AND FAILED IN THE PAST, LIKE FACEBOOK, AS AN EXAMPLE. WHY DO YOU THINK SOLANA CAN? >> I WORKED ON THE FACEBOOK PHONE. AND A BUNCH THAT FAILED. MAIN REASON NOW IS IT'S NOT CAPITAL INTENSIVE. 40-PERSON START UP. THEY'RE NOT A HUGE COMPANY. THEY CAN QUICKLY BUILD AN AMAZING DEVICE AND FOCUS ON DESIGN. A LOT OF THE STUFF IS DONE. THE REASON WHY I THINK THE OPPORTUNITY EXISTS RIGHT NOW IS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO GO AND, LIKE, GET 10 MILLION SALES RIGHT OFF THE BAT. WE CAN ACTUALLY TARGET A VERY

SMALL NICHE AUDIENCE WHICH IS CRYPTO HEAVY USERS DON'T WANT A DELIGHTFUL EXPERIENCE FOR THEIR SELF-CUSTODY. IMAGINE WE HAVE 30,000 PEOPLE ON MAGIC EDEN, THAT BECAUSE FOR WEB 3, ALL THE MONEY IS IN THESE VERY SMALL NICHE GROUPS RIGHT NOW. >> I'M CURIOUS IF YOU THINK THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE. DO YOU SEE THAT USER BASE SORT OF EXPANDING? >> THAT'S THE HOPE. RIGHT. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE APPLICATIONS ARE THAT ARE GOING TO DO IT. THIS IS THE KIND OF BILLION DOLLAR QUESTION. IF I KNEW WHAT THE APP THAT WAS GOING TO BRING 50 MILLION USERS, I'D BE PITCHING IT RIGHT NOW. >> I THINK IT'S SORT OF THE CHICKEN AND EGG QUESTION RIGHT NOW WITH DEVELOPERS AND USERS IN WEB3. WOULD YOU SAY THAT IF DEVELOPERS COME INTO THE ECOSYSTEM, THAT'S GOING TO BRING USERS? WHICH OF THOSE THINGS IS GOING TO BRING FIRST? >> YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD THE FLY WHEEL HERE.

AND I THINK WITH THESE CRYPTO BOOM AND BUST CYCLES, WHEN DEVELOPER BUILT USER EXPERIENCES, THEY BRING AN INFLUX OF USERS. YOU HAVE A BOOM MARKET THAT'S SATURATED. THAT NEW EXPERIENCE GETS SATURATED. THE IDEA OF DIGITAL GOLD GETS SATURATED. P PARTICULARLY NFTs GETS SATURATED. SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE BUILT. THE MORE START UPS GET INTO CRYPTO WILL DRIVE THE NEXT CYCLE. >> SO I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED HOW MUCH THE PHONE IS GOING TO COST. RUMORS ARE SWIRLING AND THEY'RE SAYING IT'S GOING TO COST AROUND $1,000. IS THAT TRUE? >> YEAH, THAT'S CORRECT. >> GOTCHA. DO YOU THINK PEOPLE HAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY AND ARE WILLING TO PAY THAT FOR A PHONE? >> BY HARDWARE SPECS, IT IS $300 CHEAPER THAN IT SHOULD BE WHEN YOU'RE COMPARING IT TO THE LATEST SAMSUNG OR APPLE DEVICE.

IT'S VERY COST EFFECTIVE FOR PEOPLE THAT WANT A PREMIUM PHONE. WE DON'T KNOW YET BUT OUR GOAL ISN'T TO SELL 10 MILLION UNITS. I THINK WE WOULD BE VERY HAPPY WITH 25,000, 50,000 UNITS IN THE NEXT YEAR. THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. >> IS THIS SOMETHING YOU'RE TRYING TO USE AS A TOOL TO ATTRACT DEVELOPERS? >> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY. THIS IS A DEVELOPER PLAY. RIGHT. IF YOU HAVE WEB3 DISTRIBUTION CHANNEL FOR MOBILE DUBS, THAT REALLY GIVES THEM FREEDOM TO EXPLORE AND BUILD AWESOME EXPERIENCES. WHEN YOU'RE SIGNING A TRANSACTION YOU'RE NOT SWITCHING BETWEEN FOUR APPLICATIONS OR COPYING AND PASTING LINKS. IT'S LITERALLY LIKE APPLE PAY. USERS WILL BE DELIGHTED BY THAT. AND DEVELOPERS ARE GOING TO BUILD AWESOME APPLICATIONS. THOSE ARE THE FLY WHEELS THAT WE NEED FOR THE NEXT CYCLE. >> I GUESS ONE THING I WONDER ABOUT IS YOU KNOW, THE DEVELOPERS MIGHT BE BUILDING THINGS.

BUT IF THE USERS DON'T COME, IS THIS SORT OF A MOON SHOT FOR YOU GUYS, THIS PHONE. OR IS THIS CRITICAL FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING AT SOLANA LABS? >> THIS IS A MOON SHOT. THE REASON WE CAN DO IT IS BECAUSE IT'S CHEAP ENOUGH TO TRY. IT'S NO THE GOING TO BREAK THE BANK. THE OPPORTUNITY IS HERE BECAUSE BOTH GOOGLE AND APPLE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE INTERNALLY TO GIVE UP THE 30% TAX ON APPS. IT'S JUST TOO GOOD FOR THEM TO GIVE IT UP IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. SO WHILE THAT WEDGE EXISTS, AND CRYPTO, LET'S SAY ACTUALLY GROWS FROM 10 MILLION MONTHLY ACTIVES TO 100 MILLION MONTHLY ACTIVES IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, I WOULD IMAGINE SO DOES THE SMS STACK OR THE PHONE ITSELF. >> ARE YOU WORRIED THAT GOOGLE AND APPLE COULD CHANGE THEIR MIND ON THAT? >> THAT WOULD BE A WIN. IF WE DRIVE THAT DECISION, THEN WE'D WON FOR EVERYONE IN CRYPTO, I THINK. THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

>> SO I'M CURIOUS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN REALLY GOOD AT ATTRACTING A LOT OF DEVELOPERS TO THE ECOSYSTEM. THAT'S BEEN A LOT WHAT OF SOLANA IS KNOWN FOR YOU. YOU'VE BUILT A BIG COMMUNITY. HOW ARE YOU PLANNING ON MAINTAINING THAT MOMENTUM AND GROWTH AND CONTINUING TO ATTRACT DEVELOPERS IN SOLANA? >> I THINK THE MARKET FOR C-LEVEL TEAMS I THINK IS STILL NOT BURNING HOT LIKE IT WAS SIX MONTHS AGO WHERE I THINK MOST FUNDING GROUNDS WERE AROUND 100 MILLION. BUT THEY'RE STILL PRETTY CRAZY. I THINK TEAMS ARE PRE-PRODUCT BASICALLY JUST A COUPLE ENGINEERS AT 50 MILLION VALUATIONS. 5 MILL. IT'S JUST STILL PRETTY INSANE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW LONG THAT'S GOING TO LAST. BUT A LOT OF THE FUNDS RAISED ASTRONOMICAL AMOUNTS SUMS OF MO MONEY. SO THAT'S GOING TO CARRY FOR A WHILE. THAT'S REALLY I THINK KIND OF THE KEY PART FOR ALL THESE

HACKER HOUSES AND HACKATHONS AND ALL THESE EVENTS. HOW MANY DEVS DO WE SEE THAT GET FUNDING BY A LEGITIMATE. >> WHEN SOLANA STARTED GETTING TRACTION, PEOPLE WERE CALLING SOLANA A THEORY KILLER. HOW ARE YOU LOOKING AT DIFFERENTIATING YOURSELF ESPECIALLY AS ETHEORYIUM HAS COME OUT STRONG POST MERGE? >> SO IF YOU TAKE ALL THE MAJOR BLOCKS COMBINED, SOLANA DOES MORE TRANSACTIONS PER SECOND THAN ALL OF THEM COMBINED. THAT'S THE DIFFERENTIATOR. BECAUSE OF OUR TECHNOLOGY, WE CAN REDUCE FEES TO A POINT WHERE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT DEVELOPERS CAN BUILD ARE JUST DIFFERENT. THEY'RE NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERE ELSE. AND THIS INCLUDES THINGS LIKE PIF, WHICH DOES TENS OF MILLIONS OF TRANSACTIONS PER DAY. OR SERUM. THESE ARE MUCH BIGGER APPLICATIONS. BUT THOSE PROVIDE A BASE LAYER THAT FOLKS USE WITH COMPOSED WITH FOR OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT ARE BUILT ON TOP. SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S

REALLY HARD TO REPLICATE. I DON'T KNOW IF OUR TECHNOLOGY EDGE IS GOING TO CONTINUE. BUT IT'S ALREADY THERE AND IT KEEPS GETTING BETTER AND BETTER. >> YEAH. I DO WANT TO TALK MORE ABOUT COMPETITION. I FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE AN INTERESTING VIEW ON IT AS SOMEONE IN CRYPTO. I KNOW YOU'RE OKAY WITH COMPETITION. YOU PLAYED HOCKEY, AND THAT'S KIND OF YOUR THING. I'M WONDERING ABOUT YOU KNOW, JUST WITH ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT AREAS THAT YOU COULD FACE COMPETITIVE BREADTH FROM, WHAT ARE YOU MORE CONCERNED ABOUT? ARE YOU MORE CONCERNED ABOUT INCUMBENTS LIKE ETHEORYIUM OR UPSTARTS? >> PROBABLY MORE UPSTARTS. THIS IS SOMETHING PAUL GRAHAM HAS WRITTEN ABOUT. DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE BIG COMPANIES. THEY'RE ALWAYS GOING TO MOVE BE TOO SLOW. THIS IS A VERY HARD SPACE TO OPTIMIZE FOR BECAUSE WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO BUILD A NETWORK THAT'S CENTRALIZED AND SECURE

AND PERFORM ALL AT THE SAME TIME. AND ALL THESE THINGS FIGHT EACH OTHER. I THINK AN UPSTART IS MUCH MORE LIKELY TO POTENTIALLY PICK SOME POINT ON THIS CURVE OF TRADE OFFS THAT MIGHT DO REALLY WELL IN SOME VERY NICHE THING THAT'S JUST UNEXPECTED. >> ANY PARTICULAR ONES THAT YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT? >> SO FAR NO. LIKE I THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M HONESTLY SURPRISED. BUT WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY NETWORKS LAUNCH IN THE LAST YEAR THAT HAVE BOTH TRIED TO HAVE A VERY LARGE VALIDATOR SET THAT GUARANTEE SECURITY FOR USERS AND HIGH PERFORMANCE AT THE SAME TIME. EVEN THE LAYER 2s AND CHARDAY AND ALL THESE OTHER APPROACHES, APPLICATION CHAINS, THEY'RE ALL AROUND 100 TO 150 VALIDATORS. SO WHEN YOU'RE IN THAT BOX, I THINK YOU ARE SOMEWHAT CONSTRAINING YOURSELF TO THE VALUE YOU CAN HOLD OR HOW MUCH YOU CAN GROW. >> I GUESS SPEAKING ABOUT THE TRI-LEMA, THE DIFFERENT TRADE OFFS YOU HAVE IN BUILDING A

BLOCK CHAIN, LIKE IN THE PAST YEAR HAVE EXPERIENCED SOME MAJOR NETWORK OUTAGES. THOSE HAVE BEEN PRETTY HIGH PROFILE. WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ENSURE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN? >> SO WHEN YOU'RE FOCUSING ON THE DECENTRALIZATION SIDE OF IT, YOU'RE TRYING TO MAXIMIZE A NUMBER OF VALIDATORS IN THE NETWORK. WHEN YOU HAVE A CATASTROPHIC FAILURE THAT AT LEAST ONE SURVIVES. THAT GUARANTEES THAT NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, THE NETWORK WILL CONTINUE. THAT'S AN ESOTERIC NERDY EXPLANATION. >> YOU JUST WANT TO MOVE ON AND DO YOUR TRANSACTION OR WHATEVER. >> SO THE RELIABLE ANGLE IS REALLY HARD TO DO WHEN YOU START INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE NETWORK AND YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN HIGH PERFORMANCE. BECAUSE THE DATA LOAD, THE AMOUNT OF DATA, THE AMOUNT OF FORKS THAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH JUST ALSO INCREASES. IT'S CALLED THE QUADRATIC MESSAGE PROBLEM AND CONSENSUS. THE BIGGER IT GETS, THE MORE

DATA IT HAS TO HANDLE. IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG, SOLANA PREFERS SAFETY OVER LIVENESS. THE NOTES SAY I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO DO SO I'M JUST GOING TO STALL. IN THAT EVENT, THAT'S WHEN WE RECOVER. THOSE KINDS OF BUCGS SUCK. THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO TRACK ALL OF THEM DOWN. BUT THE BIGGEST THING HAPPENING IN THE SOLANA ECOSYSTEM IS A WHOLE NOTHER TEAM THAT'S BUILDING A SECOND CLIENT FROM SCRATCH. SO THE PROBABILITY OF THE SAME BUG EXISTING IN BOTH IS VIRTUALLY ZERO. AND THAT INCLUDES BOTH SAFETY AND RELIABLE. >> GOT IT. SO IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE PUTTING A LOT OF SAFETY IN SECURING THE NETWORK. >> SOLANA IS DECENTRALIZED TO A LEVEL THAT THESE STALLS NEVER IMPACT SAFETY. THEY NEVER IMPACT LOSS OF FUNDS. THERE'S NEVER BEEN A SINGLE CONFIRMED BLOCK THAT'S BEEN ROLLED BACK. >> DO YOU THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU HAVE THIS VISION

FOR CRYPTO GOING MOBILE AND FOR APPS TO BE THE WAY THAT WEB 3 GROWS. DO YOU THINK THE USERS OF THOSE APPS REALLY CARE ABOUT DECENTRALIZATION? >> YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK COLLECTORS OF NFTs CARE ABOUT THAT THEY OWN NFTs. PEOPLE REALLY PASSIONATELY CARE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY OWN THEM. >> DEEPER THAN I'D LIKE SOMETIMES. >> BUT THEY HAVE TRUE DIGITAL OWNERSHIP OF THESE THINGS. THIS IS I THINK A VERY NATURAL THING. LIKE AS A HUMAN, WHEN YOU OWN STUFF, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT SOMEBODY TO TAKE IT AWAY. ONCE YOU EXPERIENCE THAT, I DON'T THINK YOU'D WANT TO GO BACK TO THE WEB 2 MODEL WHERE YOU'RE KIND OF RENTING OVER OUR FEUDAL OVERLORDS. >> SURE, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT OUR DEVELOPERS. WHEN I THINK ABOUT THIS PROBLEM, THERE'S ALSO A POOL OF PEOPLE THAT'S BEEN LARGELY LEFT OUT OF THAT WHOLE CONVERSATION. THE STATS ARE PRETTY BAD IN TECH FOR WOMEN, SPECIFICALLY IS WHAT

I'M TALKING ABOUT. IN CRYPTO, IT'S EVEN WORSE. 8% OF WEB 3 EMPLOYEES OVERALL ARE WOMEN. AND PROBABLY FEWER WHO ARE ACTUALLY ENGINEERS. I KNOW WE WERE CHATTING ABOUT THIS EARLIER AND I ASKED HOW MANY WOMEN YOU HAD ON THE SOLANA LABS TEAM. AND I KNOW YOU DECLINED TO SHARE THAT INFORMATION. BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO BRING MORE WOMEN IN? >> RECRUITING TALENTED FOLKS IS REALLY, REALLY HARD. AND IN CRYPTO, IT'S EVEN HARDER BECAUSE I THINK IT'S ALL A BUNCH OF DUDES. LIKE THAT JUST SUCKS. >> YEAH. I MEAN — >> I THINK THIS IS A REALLY TOUGH CHALLENGE FOR START-UPS TO HANDLE. THE WAY WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO THIS IS JUST PAY MORE. LIKE THAT'S KIND OF YOU GOTTA SUCK IT UP AND PAY MORE FOR HIRES. >> DO YOU THINK THAT WILL HELP BRING MORE WOMEN INTO THE ECOSYSTEM? >> THE FOLKS THAT ARE PICKING

CRYPTO ARE PICKING A VERY RISKY CAREER CHOICE. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS AN INTERNAL DECISION THAT FOLKS NEED TO MAKE. AND IT'S OFTEN HARDER WHEN YOU'RE STRUGGLING WITH A CAREER AT ALL. THAT'S USUALLY A HARDER DECISION FOR ANYONE THAT DOESN'T HAVE AN EASY FALLBACK. I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD BE HAPPY, LIKE, IF I HAD A SOLUTION, I WOULD DEFINITELY BE EXECUTING ON IT. BUT THIS IS I THINK ONE OF THE HARDEST PROBLEMS IN THE U.S. FOR TECH SPECIFICALLY. >> ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL THAT IF THERE ARE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LEFT OUT OF THE CONVERSATION IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT THAT MAYBE THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT DEMAND OR FOR THE ABILITY OF WEB3 TO GROW TO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE? >> ABSOLUTELY. MOST DEVS WILL BUILD APPLICATIONS WITH BIASES THAT SERVE THEMSELVES. THAT'S BASICALLY KIND OF COMMON SENSE. AND I THINK AS YOU'VE SEEN AN ADOPTION, IT ISN'T TARGETED.

ADOPTION OF CRYPTO, MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE IN CRYPTO CONFERENCES ARE PRETTY HOMOGENOUS. THAT'S ALSO I THINK A PROBLEM. >> RIGHT. BUT THERE'S NOTHING SPECIFIC AT THIS POINT THAT YOU WANTED TO SHARE THAT YOU'RE FOCUSED ON IN TERMS OF THAT PROBLEM? >> YEAH, NO MAGIC WAND. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A GRIND. A PRETTY UPHILL CLIMB. >> GOTCHA. YEAH. I WANT TO ZOOM OUT TO SORT OF BRING THIS ALL BACK TO THE FUTURE. EVERYONE WANTS A FORWARD LOOKING STATEMENT, I KNOW. BUT IN FIVE YEARS' TIME, WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE GOING TO BE THE CASES, THE APPS BUILT ON SOLANA GOING TO BE DISPENSABLE. >> THIS IS ALSO THE BILLION DOLLAR QUESTION AND I DON'T KNOW. I HAVE THIS DREAM THAT MAYBE WHEN WE GET TO A POINT WHERE THERE'S 100 MILLION PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, HALF A BILLION PEOPLE WITH SELF-CUSTODY, WHAT THAT CHANGES TO THE WORLD IS THAT IT ALLOWS ALL THESE FOLKS TO COORDINATE

INSTANTLY. TO MAKE DECISIONS DIGITALLY ON THE WEB THAT ARE VERY IMPACTFUL. WHAT IF 100 MILLION PEOPLE ALL DECIDED TO BUY EVERY COAL PLANT IN THE WORLD AND SHUT IT DOWN? RIGHT NOW THAT WOULD BE VERY, VERY HARD TO DO BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS. RAISE MONEY, ALL OF THIS THE STUFF, YOU DON'T TRUST ALL THE FOLKS INVOLVED THAT ARE PITCHING THIS. BUT AS SOON AS A CONTRACT RECEIVES MONEY AND CAN EXECUTE IMMEDIATELY, THAT KIND OF COLLECTIVE ACTION BECOMES A TOOL. IT COULD BE A VERY POWERFUL TOOL FOR CHANGE. >> SO WHAT DO YOU THINK SOLANA IS GOING TO BE REMEMBERED FOR? >> I'M NOT SURE. CHEAP AND FAST. THAT WOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH. >> OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I THINK THAT'S A GOOD PLACE TO WRAP IT UP. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS CONV