Is fintech having a moment? | Equity Podcast

This episode is presented by invest Puerto Rico if you believe your business Can go anywhere Puerto Rico is the [Music] Place hello and welcome back to equity a Podcast about the business of startups Where we unpack the numbers and the Nuance behind the headlines today is April 19th 20 24 my name is Alex and I'm Joined today as always by my dear Friends in one corner we have Maryanne a Aeto who brought the smallest water Bottle I have ever seen in my life did This recording Maryann how is your Thirst quenched by merely 4 ounces That's my question it's a long story Alex but you know water is water and we All need to stay hydrated Kristen corac Do we need water or can we just drink a Whole lot of Pepsi and C Good as a desert dweller I have to say Water is more essential than pep Yes you are in the United States state Of oracus I believe it's called yes let The spies flow let the spies flow and That's what we call New Mexico in the Northeast because it's roughly as Foreign to us as other planets all right On the Pod today we have a packed show In the deals of the week column we're Going to talk about cherub then Maven And then ripling then the first theme of The week is what the heck is going on Over at Tesla we haven't covered Tesla

As much on the show as we did back in The day cuz got to be so big but so much Is going on that impacts the EV world we Just can't say no and then we're going To wrap up with a section that I'm Calling fintech it's doing all right Couple of news items there that we're Going to tie together to discuss the State of all things fintech but we are Going to start with Maryann and a Company called cherub and MaryAnn I Think this company kicks ass talk to us About it yeah I was intrigued as well It's an interesting concept cherub is What the co-founders describe as a Rya Of Angel Investing and I shouldn't Necessarily have assumed that everybody Would understand what that is maybe it's Because I read too much celebrity gossip But Rya and I I hope I'm also Pronouncing that right is basically a Dating app for the affluent the wealthy Celebrities for example are on Riot Anyway cherub is attempting to do a Similar thing but matching up Angel Investors with entrepreneurs maryan did Did you just say that you're an avid Consumer of celebrity gossip I wouldn't Say avid but it is a vice I I find it Entertaining I admit it I mean we we Write about these topics all day long so You know if I want something mindless That's what I do but you could quit at Any time right you're not really that to

It okay you're not like you're not an Addict you're in control yeah absolutely No tabloid addiction here no no no I Have a question though related to the Actual startup and not celebrity gossip I know Alex wants to go down that road So is there a vetting process to ensure That the folks who are on there are like Legit Angel Investors or legit Founders Like how does the process work how do You get on yeah well that's actually a Very good question so it's a Subscription based product for Founders There's two different levels of Subscriptions based on what they would Get out of it and then the angels I am 99% sure all have to be accredited but Beyond that I don't know if there's any Other vetting she didn't mention that There was I don't think there's any Other criteria involved there but what Is interesting is that it's very similar To like these dating apps a a Founder Can look at an Investor's profile an Investor can look at a Founder's profile And then they can you know Express that They're interested and then the other Party can look at theirs and decide Whether or not to accept or reject that Connection and that could be like oh Well that Investor's only writing $10,000 checks well we we want someone Who can write a bigger check or things Like that or an angel can be like hm

This company's way too early stage for Me so I'm not going to bother I want to Ask about the business model because It's free for investors but they charge Startups to join so they're charging People money who need money and people Who have money don't have to pay is that Right yeah and at first I kind of Thought hm I would have thought it might Be the other way around but no it's a $480 year membership for Founders to List their companies in the directory And they get analytics such as how many People viewed their deck and that sort Of thing then they have a $950 a year Membership that's this is where the Vetting comes in a more vetted process To show the company more actively to Investors I talked to two Founders who Claim one of them said that they already Got a $25,000 check just by being Featured in cherub's newsletter and then Meeting an investor in real life at an In-person event that cherub held and Then another founder told me that they Were looking for more than just money They wanted connections and they felt Like they were going to be able to make More a lot of connections through the Site because they'd already raised like $5 million they're a ycb company and a Series a round LED by felices and so They were like we we're really more even Interested in the networking

Opportunities that can come out of this So I agree with you it almost sounds Like counterintuitive that the founders Would be paying but I guess so far the Couple that I talked to found value out Of it maybe it's just not that much Money and so I'm maybe it's more of like A uh keep the What what's a play we have seen Riff Raff out of the platform so that way for Investors who are in demand they know That if they show up there what they'll Be shown is going to be at least Sufficiently serious as to be able to Cough up 500 bucks a year right yeah to Me it feels like being a member of a Club right so there's that networking Social aspect but backed with analytics And knowing that the people that you're Going to be networking with also are Interested in potentially investing and Also have connections so you know how Much is a social club membership at you Know your local Country Club probably a Lot more and oh yeah you know not not Filtered for the people that you want to Meet so seems like an interesting Business model to me and it sounds like They have a weit list of like 1500 Startups so there's definitely demand I Think there is and part of that may have To do with one of the co-founders Honestly Jaclyn Johnson she also founded Crea and cultivate it's a self-described

Media company for ambitious women I Think she's fairly well known especially In the the cpg space which there are a Lot of cpg companies featured on cherub Although it's not exclusively based on Consumer it there is a lot of it on There and angelene vong who was at Open Door for many years they just seem Really smart and have a lot of Connections themselves so I feel like a Lot of people are drawn to them too like Okay if if they're behind this I want to Know more so that I think that also Helps yeah on the consumer packaged Goods front we actually have some Consumer Tech investing news from K to Get to yeah so remember earlier this Year when everyone freaked out because Andre and laar said we're pivoting away From investing in consumer Tech well Maven Ventures just secured a $60 Million fund their fourth fund that's Going to be focused on consumer Tech Trends so it's not going away startups If you're working on consumer tech there Investors out there and it's interesting Because to me these are smaller Investments right so around a million Dollars they make about seven Investments a year or six to eight I Guess and they've made Seven investments From this new fund already but to me What's interesting and Alex Maran Curious what your opinion is is that

It's like not just straightup consumer Tech it's a lot of AI if you look at Some of their recent Investments so it's Really marrying the two how is AI apply To Consumer Tech seems like what they're Most interested in here would you agree Yeah I mean they were saying that want To do things like help build the next Game-changing Health AI company or Robotics AI consumer business so I think You're right there one thing also that Very much stood out to me though is Their record that 16% of the firm's Portfolio companies have reached a Minimum $500 million exit or valuation And that's 10 times the industry average Like dang that's pretty good yeah I Wonder if that very positive trend will Continue because there's a saying in the World of publicly traded companies Alex I'm sure has heard this it's like it's Hard to catch a falling knife right so It's hard to like time the the market It's also really hard to time that Perfect moment when to start investing In the next new new thing and in this World the next new new thing is AI so The application of AI to Consumer Tech To me man it's going to be difficult to Pick those winners the good news is is That they have lots of folks there who Have institutional knowledge expertise In Ai and that in those applications so I think the phrase is don't try to catch

Falling knives the implication being That if you do you you'll cut yourself And get bloody so don't try to start Buying stuff when it's on its way down But I think it's actually kind of like The opposite inventure capital in a fun Way like you want to be one step ahead Of what's going on now and so when you Look at like the recent entries in Horowits funds they just put out as part Of their 7.2 billion do package they Have like I think it was 1.25 billion For like AI infra and another billion in There for AI apps so currently that is Like the thing people are putting Capital into but with probably less of a Consumer Focus so for Maven when I first Read the story Kristen I did think I'm Like oh cool consumer something that Won't be AI for once and then I saw the Portfolio companies had a similar kind Of like reaction to it but that said I've learned a lot about consumer stuff Lately so like Pixar For example just Announced they've reached like their Billionth AI generated image for Consumers and you know I think chat GPT Continued stickiness with consumers Shows that if you can nail the ssite Guist the rewards are very large for the Intersection of AI and folks so I Wouldn't want to have the challenge of Picking that next thing it sounds damn To difficult but if you can I can also

See how you could return a $60 million Fund several times over with just one Deal yeah and they have the benefit of Going more at an earlier stage so They're looking at potentially making More Investments with and sort of Hopefully planting their invest Investment seeds in a way that is Diversified even though there's Obviously a trend here with the AI theme Yeah before we move on I I think it's Important to note that a couple of Companies that they had funded actually They had seated were zoom and cruise and Actually the founding managing partner Jim shinan is even credited for coming Up with a zoom name so all they do is Make car sounds and watch Cars Go by is Apparently what we're doing no I mean Maven track record is pretty impressive But I want to throw one more thing in Here about this consumer AI thing that Just occurred to me there has been an Interesting element of like price Anchoring in the AI world like I pay Open AI how much does chat GPT Pro cost Does anyone know how much I'm paying Open a I paid them some amount of money Every month because my dad loves it Right and I think that you know like the Co-pilot service from Microsoft for GitHub is 10 bucks a month it's 30 bucks A month for like office AI for Microsoft And so forth so I really do feel like

The market is saying hey these things Will cost money and if you can get a Consumer product that you can charge for On a recurring basis like this you can Have a simply enormous amount of Revenue So maybe like the stuff that we're Seeing here is going to Bear out better Than we would think actually Alex chat GPT right now costs about $20 a month to Answer your question and by the way what A nightmare future like I already am Juggling so many subscriptions on the Streaming side now I have to juggle all These a subscriptions as well how much Money am I going to be spending 5 years From now I don't even want to guess this Is why I have my well I don't have my Spouse is detail oriented and handles Our day-to-day accounting so I don't Actually know how many things we're Paying for but she says we're doing fine So I'll take five more moving us along My deal of the week is an upcoming round From a company called ripling which you Might be familiar with if you're Listening it's in the HR Tech space Competes with gusto and deal and smaller Companies like remot first that we Covered on the show a little bit ago and It's in the process of raising $870 Million but Maryann ask me how much of That's primary versus secondary how much Of that is primary versus secondary Alex Ah what a brilliant question it's $200

Million in primary and $670 million in Secondary which is a pretty imbalanced Freaking round and I think says two Things one that the company is not Burning so much that it is desperate to Raise as much money for itself as it Could and that it's not going to go Public for a long time because it just Cashed out a bunch of its early Investors and employees but it's cool to See kind of a around this size and Valuation Maran I was pretty hyped yeah I was a little surprised honestly Because it was just last March that they Had raised 500 million dollars right After or during the svb Meltdown so That's a lot of money in a relatively Short amount of time especially in this Market I haven't talked to ripling in a Little while so I'm not really up to Speed on how the company is doing but This would probably lead me to believe It's not doing too bad no not at all the Information reported I think that they Closed last year on a run rate or ARR Basis of $350 million so getting to be Quite large there are a couple other Competitors that are at the $500 million AR marker higher so they're not the Biggest yeah but what's blowing my mind Is just like I think Gusto and deal are At 500 million and above this one's at 350 I mean there's a lot of Revenue in this

Space so the the valuations do seem a Little high this deal put the company's Value at 13.4 billion up from 11.25 but that said you can kind of see Why there's optimism about these Companies for sure it's a massive space It is a massive space so the question is How does this all shake out I mean They've obviously now raised a bunch of Money they're looking to expand they Recently signed a 123,000 ft lease for Some a new SF headquarters wow people Are moving into commercial space that's Insane in San Francisco San Francisco quadrupling it's office space So they're spending money they're Expanding they're definitely on that Growth trajectory but what does it boat In the long term in terms of going Public do they need to even go public at This point is Marketplace big enough for Them to remain privately held get the Revenue and kind of give a big Fu to the Public markets do they need them that is A question that is broader and bigger And deeper than just Rippling in its Current situation I know we could have a Whole show about it but I I think it's Also the right question to ask I will Say though that whenever you see this Much secondary the presumption is that It's going to reduce a lot of the Pressure that might have been behind the Company from its earliest investors to

Cash out those shares because some funds Have a 10 or 12 year time frame and that Can get a little bit sticky also some Early employees can cash out some so Employees atate less so no they don't Need to go public at some point if you Are venture-backed you yes you have to Find n exit because that is how your Backers will profit but the question I Think that I would ask is does it have To happen in the next 3 years probably Not that said there is an interesting IPO coming up next week so this week we Saw the ibata deal and I have some notes Later on about that so save that for a Second but rubric is going public next Week and rubric is an interesting Company it does data management and Cyber security stuff and it's like Really unprofitable now I don't know What the state is of all these companies In the hrtech payroll space but I Presume they're not all profitable and So if you want to get more of them off The bench and into the public markets I Think if rubric does well with its Unprofitability that would say there's Enough enthusiasm to allow more to go Public and then maybe some of these will Not Rippling but maybe Gusto or deal Might consider it so I I think we'll get An interesting test karon next week stay Tuned stay tuned indeed all right now on The IPO front as promised I Bata a

Priced above range at $88 per share Ahead of its range of 76 to 84 and it Opened trading on Thursday at something Like a $10 $111 per share so yeah the IPO wins are Winsome I mean this is Great I did not expect to see this much Enthusiasm and it's great not because I Own a Bata stock I do not but it's great Because I'm hoping it's going to get More companies to list so we can talk About them on the podcast because we've Only had three IPOs since last August And then two and then it was like a 12 Month dir so not enough debuts but good News there I wish our listeners could See the glint in your eyes Alex when you Talk about IPOs before we move on I just Want to spend 30 seconds to mention CU This just happened serve robotics which Is the sidewalk delivery robot company Backed by Uber kind of spun out of uber Postmates really also backed by Nvidia They debuted today and not looking great Right now oh no what's the ticker symbol S e RV so this was a reverse merger very Similar to a spack slightly different Details but yeah they're down granted We're talking small amount of money here You know $3 a share I think they were Hoping to debut out four they're down 88 Cents which is 22% so we'll see what Happens but maybe not so bullish on the Sidewalk delivery robot that is such a Gosh darn let down because surf robotics

Is like the absolute like cross-section Of things that I love cute robots Delived burritos and sitting on my ass And oh and self-driving it's like it's It's everything I love in one package I Wish we could buy individual stocks as Turus because it would be fun to like You know like buy some Surf and be like Yeah that'll show the haters I'm going To use their robots we don't do that but I'm disappointed it's off 21% right now Damn huh yeah well but it's just first Day so let's see what happens over the Long term and they do notably have some Big companies backing them Nvidia Uber Being the main ones but they're still Small you know so let's see if they can Manage to scale up all right when we Come back we're gonna talk about what is Going on at Tesla but first my dear Friends a short Break what's next in Tech that's not the Right question it's where Puerto Rico More than just a Tropical Paradise it's An Innovations Paradise where startups And Global players coexist in a vast and Vibrant ecosystem where Talent runs deep Highly skilled and bilingual plus the Island offers the most competitive tax Incentives in the US if you believe your Business can go anywhere Puerto Rico is The place find out more at invest pr.org TechCrunch and we are back and I am so Glad that we have Kirsten on the call

Today because it has been a week of Non-stop Tesla news started off with a Bang and there has been many Developments since then kren why won't Tesla leave us alone and give us back The news cycle because elon's still in Charge ah let's start on the start of The week so going back to Monday rumors Are flying that layoffs are coming they Arrive and the company said that they Were 10% or was it more than 10% so There was about 140,000 employees right Now or were under Tesla as of Sunday Night and Monday come layoffs around 10% That's what we're hearing an email goes Out but it was a little bit chaotic as Sometimes things are with Tesla some People and we had sources tell us this And other outlets reported this that People were badging into one of the Facilities and then kind of being Flagged and learning that's how they Were laid off oh that's awful yeah Layoffs have happened in Tesla Periodically over the years it's Oftentimes used to resize the company or The big underlying thing there's a Couple themes here some very big high Performers were part of those layoffs at The same time as these layoffs a couple Of high-profile people people who Elon Actually let be out there in the public Space which is a big deal he typically Is the one who is sort of the mouthpiece

For the company Drew baglino being the Primary person that a lot of attention Has been put on and the speculation and Theory there which is backed up by some Evidence is that there has been an Underlying kind of fight going on within Tesla over whether to pursue a $25,000 Or lowcost cheap EV Or this Robo taxi that is supposedly Based on the same platform and in Walter Isaacson's biography that came out last Year it kind of gives details on this Sort of fight so what we looks like What's happening is Elon in classic Elon Style is pivoting is going all in on Robo taxi and realigning the business as A result so there was also a recent cut To the price of full self-driving the Software package and I think people also Could use it for free for a month Something like that yeah that's still Going on okay it seemed like a push by The company to get more people getting Out there getting more data for it and So to me thinking about that does the Does the FSD price cuts and free trials Feed more data into the company to Support the robot taxi push because I Can see that kind of making sense well I Mean there's so many questions I have About the robot taxi so quite honestly I Think the big thing to remember here is Going back to fundamental of the company Primarily they've received you know

Revenue and profits from the making and Selling of cars the price Wars that Started a year ago really kind of Prompted by them has absolutely squeezed Their profit margins to a point where They were once the Envy of the Automotive industry and they have Absolutely dropped as a result of these EV price Wars and clear evidence of some Softening demand across the industry Even though Tesla is still very much a Leader it is still affecting that Company so they're looking for other Financial levers the other Financial Lever is FSD really so the free trial Push to me was absolutely more of sure Is there a data play in the background Yeah but it's also a revenue a BigTime Revenue play the fact that they then Went ahead and reduced the price Suggests that the take rate on that free Trial wasn't maybe what they wanted okay But that is a bit speculative so you Know again it's a theory to answer your Question of whether this data will then Go and be used for robotx we could maybe Assume that but we're talking about the Difference between an ads system because FST is not self-driving to a level four Meaning a human driver is not expected To be in the loop Robo taxi and where That data is used and how it overlaps is Still a big question mark because they Haven't talked about it okay I'm just

Going to ask you this very very simply Because I want to make sure that I'm not Totally insane is there any company in The world right now that has a level Four autonomous driving system that can Be Unleashed on for example a whole Continent worth of Roads so no because we don't have Evidence of a company doing that the Closest would be let's say weo which is Currently operating a level four Robotaxi in which the human being in the Vehicle is not an any way expected to Take over and it is operating Commercially in Phoenix Los Angeles and San Francisco so not the whole continent Certainly and so we call them ODS or Operational design domains so that could Mean the specific geography that could Also mean no left turns or never when it Rains or no fog so you know what you're Talking about is really level five Anywhere all conditions any road and That is something that quite honestly Most folks believe is decades away right Well we're going to see more is the Level for yes decades away I I like that Maranne I'm already getting my parade Rained on you don't need to add Hail to The mix kson so my point with that Question although I I do very much Appreciate the very succinct and clear Answer was more like what is Elon Thinking that Robo taxis are around the

Corner if level five to your point is so Far away I what what am I missing in This picture that makes this a Possibility versus a pipe dream because I want to believe it I want s driving I'm the opposite of Maryanne here but it Just seems like a pivot off a cliff Versus towards the new future as a History lesson Elon Musk has been Talking about a car that can drive Itself for years in an interview I had With him as far back as December of 2015 When I was at Fortune not at Tech crunch You know he said it was 2 years away and In promise publicly either via social Media or in press conferences or in Interviews that your Tesla would turn Into a robo taxi in which you could then Make money off of it so these have been Promises that have been put out there For years now Elon has in the past made Promises and then delivered on those This is one that seems very distant and I don't really quite honestly see how They can do it with the hardware that They have right now they've skewed a lot Of more the traditional Hardware such as Lar on their vehicles and they're just Going based on camera Will the robo taxi be the same there's Also regulatory questions such as does It have a steering wheel and pedals Because that would require special Federal exemption under fmvss which is

An acronym I won't get into here but Basically it's all the requirements that Your car has to have like an airbag like A steering wheel those are real Requirements under federal law if you Build a robot taxi without those things You need an exemption so what's this Robot taxi going look like like Basically this announcement to me leaves Me with a lot of questions and quite Frankly huge amounts of risk for the Company I know that there are a lot of People out there who are bullish I'm Sure I will hear from you you're going To tell me that this is the future and He's betting on the future and it's true That Elon has incredibly high tolerance For risk probably more than any human Being I've ever encountered but the Question is I don't know how they turn This into a revenue maker in the near Term I agree with everything you just Said but let's move on we have to talk About fintech maryan fintech has been The durge of the technology Symphony for Quite some time now but the plotting Pace has gone away and it does seem that We've reached a new Tempo you might even Say it's Algro yes wow yeah this week I covered Ramp's latest raise it was $150 million Series D extension at a post money Valuation of $ 7.65 billion so what is Interesting about this is the valuation

Is actually an increase compared to its Last round even though it's still down From its valuation 2 years ago but wow In this environment that's pretty Impressive also impressive are the list Of investors participating in this round We had kosla Ventures and Founders fund Co-leading we had new backers Sequoia Capital Greylock 8C and a long list of Other existing backers that also Participated in the round is this just Everyone who's not an investor in Brecks I I don't I don't know I didn't Analyze to that extent but yeah there There's a lot it's also interesting if I Have to you know talk about this too is That Keith Raab boy he actually led the Investment into ramp very very early on Like when he was at Founders fund and Was on the board but he left to kosla a Few months ago and so he obviously Helped lead the round for kosla Founders Fund I guess didn't have hard feelings And still participated and actually Co-led the round so I thought that was a Little bit of an interesting backstory So is this fch having a moment or is This just about ramp that is a good Question I mean ramp arguably has really Stood out as sort of an outlier it Hasn't had to lay off it's been notching Consistent Revenue growth at least based On what they tell us continuing to raise Capital steadily with a valuation that's

You know not that far off its peak two Years ago so you know I don't know I I Would say it's definitely probably more Reflective of how well ramp is doing it Claims to have done very well in the First quarter compared to the year Before and that is looking at it as uh Eric Gman co-founder said at a much Larger base so as Alex and I have talked About in the past it's harder to grow Exponentially the bigger you get but Ramp seem seems to keep doing that one Other quick note though some would argue That Rippling also falls into the Fintech space so because they got into Global payroll so if you count these two Deals then you could also say this is a Little bit more of fintech itself having A moment stole the words right out of my Mouth and also I would say that the Other bit of fintech news that we have In the show notes today is about Mercury Expanding away from just doing business And startup banking into also consumer Banking and to me that shows a level of Of confidence in what they've built They're willing to expand into consumer I mean we have seen Goldman Sachs try This with Marcus and torch a bunch of Money and run away so to me with the Rippling round with the ramp round and Then the kind of bold Choice from Mercury that's the combination of those Made me feel like fentex having a moment

I may certainly be over indexing on Three data points but that was the Impetus behind that as the title of the Section kirs well at least Finch's Having a moment this quarter let's just Put it that way right or at least this Week anyway cuz who knows what would Happen next week I said fintech is Having a moment a moment is by Definition an ephemeral amount of time Har anyway yeah interesting news about Mercury expanding into personal banking We'll see how that goes they uh just Want to say that what they are looking To do is more of a premium thing not Going necessarily after the masses but More targeting like the founders and Investors that already use its B2B Product but on the personal banking side Okay we got to wrap but marann I have One last question for you about chime Have you heard anything from them I Haven't talked to chime I I they're so Quiet I don't know what's going on at Chime it's just weird because they grew So quickly and they don't have to raise Money I don't care about that but I just I can't recall seeing news from them Hearing about them no one's reporting on Their numbers very quiet they're either Doing incredibly well or incredibly not Well it's one of the two we'll find out In time I suppose maybe I need to reach Out and ask well let's just start going

Through everyone that's left the company On LinkedIn and just go down one by one And get them on the phone all right but That is all the time we have for Equity Today Kiren corc from the transport desk Thank you so much for your time time Marann asto from All Things fintech Adventure thank you for your time Equity Of course is part of the tech wrench Podcast Network and our sister show is Found focused on all things Founders Equity comes out three times a week Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays except For when we have a special weekend Interview Maryann yes I have an Interview coming out this weekend with Hans tongue well he was with what was Forly called ggv Capital now called Notable Capital really great interview Please please listen up for it you won't Regret it yeah and also to everyone I Offended by calling notable Capital the Most boring name inventure capital I Apologize kind of all right we're out of Here bye everybody bye Bye Equity is hosted by myself Alex Wilhelm and Tech rench senior reporter Mary an aeto we are produced by Teresa Loans solo with editing by Kell Bryce Deran is our illustrator and a big thank You to the audience development team and Henry pette who manages Tech wrench Audio prods thank you so much for Listening and we'll talk to you next

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