We did talk to Sun Tzu. We did talk to SBF a few 
times. We talked to Mashinsky multiple times the   Few calls I had with him was always in the middle 
of the night super awkward it was really like   A car salesman even during uh you know when 
everything was falling up and everything was   Blowing up with Celsius you know Alameda coming 
to us and asking for like you know 500 million   Dollars which that back then did alert us yeah 
I had the conversation sized don't spoil it I   Have the conversation can I share with you guys 
word for word I just found it on telegram is that   Okay I'll literally tell you exactly exactly what 
happens for AC we talked about sam bankman freed   We talked about FTX three Arrow Capital Celsius 
the elephant in the room you guys have inside   Knowledge dealing with these Heavy Hitters 
in crypto do you think binance is 100 solid Altcoin daily Smash Up the like 
button today we are joined by two   Leading founding members of one of the 
biggest cryptocurrency exchanges in the   World Swiss Borg Alex and Cyrus 
Faisal how you guys doing today Great very well super excited great to 
have you guys we met in Dubai a future   Blockchain Summit and we were talking before 
this and you guys were in conversations with   FTX Celsius taraluna three Arrow Capital the 
companies that all went under in the past   Year you guys passed on them and in today's 
video we're going to talk about how to avoid   The next FTX disaster and lessons learned 
from all of the black swans big guys down Absolutely awesome so before we jump into 
that though let's let the audience get to   Know you guys a little bit tell us 
about your experience in crypto how   You founded Swiss Borg and feel free 
to brag a little bit girlfriend Alex So you know what's really funny with this guys is 
so first of all for all those watching we're all   Brothers right so this is uh Bromance 2.0 but you 
know the funny thing between Cyrus and I is Cyrus   Was always the zero to one guy who's an incredible 
Visionary if if I had to name his superpower he   Would always predict future Trends which was very 
very interesting and I didn't have that mindset   I'm more of a one to two guy so I like to take 
ideas even when I was little I used to when I used   To draw things you I don't know if remember Psy 
but I would like to draw for example a Dragon Ball   Character um and then I'll just change the hair 
a little bit or I'd put on different clothes so I   Would never I never had that Talent of being able 
to invent things but I love to refine things but   Uh yeah but Cyrus is essentially thanks to him I 
got into this crazy crypto space but after you say   Yeah I think so one of the big thing of of 
our family which is quite funny it was very   Persian Swiss Family and um we lost it all 
like really we did lost it all and and when   You lose it all your identity your wealth 
that goes with it you probably live a very   Trained interesting experiences as as a family 
itself and I think so that was really what like   It's a bit like their first time if you trade 
and get wiped out and you it's very usually a  

Very good experience because you'll then probably 
be able not to lose your private keys and not lose   Your assets or whatsoever because you learn in a 
very hard way and I think so this is the reason   Why we you know we always with my brother we try 
to understand what is wealth but more importantly   How can you accumulate wealth how can you have 
your identity that will never change regardless   Of wars or whatsoever and when you think about 
all of these different things well essentially   Blockchain and web3 is a bit the answer for this 
so that's been really our Quest I would say of   Our life is is not only to be wealthy but to have 
this The Sovereign identity that goes with it and   And and you know after working you know 10 15 
years 10 years sorry in hedge funds Banking and   All that we never really realized that there 
was not much that talks to to us in terms of   Fairness in terms of fun in terms of community 
Centric so that's it was the whole big thing about   Swissburg is how to democratize with management 
by making it fun fairy Community Centric and you   Know since our Ico which was five years ago 
so today we've been really working hard with   Our community to to offer this vision and to offer 
applications that that back this Vision I think so   And I think gents you know like connecting our 
purpose sorry to interrupt but you know having   This Iranian background is a key moment for 
both of us and I'll tell you why number one   Our parents lost all their land all their wealth 
was confiscated by governments by centralized   Authorities by institutions whatever you want 
to call it organizations so already you can see   That the office unconfiscatable censorship 
resistant type model already made sense to   All the wealth that we lost like becoming nubo 
like Newport because the family was originally   Wealthy in Iran but also recently guys are in 
the pandemic my my best story with Bitcoin that   Really made me love this from you know the 
bottom of my heart is my dad lost his job   Obviously when you hear Iranian people got to 
understand when there's an embargo and all this   Political BS which by the way I love to call 
Bitcoin a political uh mechanism or apolitical   Um asset but you wipe off everyone from the grid 
from every banking system from every bank account   And the only way where we could help my dad during 
the pandemic who lost the job as well because she   Was doing import export was to send in Bitcoin 
and then he would go to the local salvation and he   Would exchange his Bitcoin to the local two months 
it was literally a guy the only only way to bypass   Sanctions and help my dad provide provide to my 
dad so that he can just put put on his late pay   For electricity and and you know survive through 
the pandemic where he couldn't fly so you can see   It guys it's like full circle uh very meaningful 
last week I paid uh two thousand five hundred   Dollars Alex for his dentists yo you owe me twelve 
hundred dollars and I said it with you oh no Sorry guys The Stables were even with dentists over 
there it's crazy it's it's funny how how   How yeah blockchain has great applications 
yeah totally and that's a great story I mean  

You really see the need for Bitcoin to be able 
to avoid that and help your family but um Swiss   Borg it's not in America but globally it's one 
of the largest exchanges in the world correct   Yeah I mean we definitely have our big guys here 
in Europe and in Switzerland what we've been able   To do is to aggregate multiple different exchanges 
enable people to buy and sell at the best prices   We've been able to bring as well the whole D5 part 
the staking with really providing transparence see   Reports to understand where the yield is coming 
from I think this is very important and try to   Bring different layers that enable people to 
manage their wealth the most simple secure way   Uh and and that's that's really what swissburg is 
is Bridging the off chain world so the traditional   Fintech and and I would say the web 3 world also 
the long chain wearing and how you combine both   Of the best worlds yeah you guys mentioned did 
you guys realize that my brother didn't mention   C5 or D5 but he said on chain and off chain and 
I think that's a really key point because a lot   Of people think that on chain is automatically 
defy which is not true at all right so uh the   Real D5 is Bitcoin right there's that's real 
decentralization ethereum is also there but   Not many other players are true D5 so that's 
why we like to say you know we combine both   Speaking about the D5 versus C5 and C5 is 
why crypto got in trouble certain centralized   Companies is why we entered one of the worst 
bear markets ever Europe here in this space   Um so let's take it to 2020 2021 maybe 2022 you 
were having conversations with some of these guys   Just as peers what red flags did you see and maybe 
like the ftx's or the Celsius or the three ACS Yeah absolutely so like kind of the stories I like 
to share guys is I kind of explain traditional   Finance as the grandpa from the village who's wise 
with experience but he's done some naughty things   While Defy is his toddler nephew you know and and 
they really need to write rather than fighting   Or yelling at each other or being rebellious and 
saying hey Grandpa you're a baby boomer you don't   Get it I'm cool I'm rebellious uh we really think 
that things can be learned from both worlds and   Um I'll let Cyrus talk about some of the 
conversations one thing I do want to point   Out is it wasn't necessarily C5 but I think due 
to human error human greed and all the not the   Technology itself so it's really um that's one 
angle to it but there's so many comparisons I   Feel like what happened to us as you guys said in 
the past two years is almost 20 years of mistakes   Through traditional Finance so Tara USD is kind 
of like the subprime crisis when you look at the   Poor collateral and and the way it was stacked up 
through primary and secondary markets then as you   You guys know Celsius I don't know if you guys 
know but in Lebanon there's a very similar story   Where if you create a banking account and your 
savings account they would give you 15 yield but   The problem is when the Lebanese era actually 
was fluctuating that killed State py and the   Collateral actually damaged this very high yields 
that were not sustainable so it was very similar   To Celsius in some ways and then of course 3ac 
is the typical long-term Capital Management over  

Leveraged which is you know again that happened in 
traditional finance and FTX is a bit of a fairly   Madoff story right so I feel like you know we 
could have avoided these mistakes guys if we if we   Weren't so rebellious and constantly fighting with 
trapfi and maybe learning a few lessons here and   There but uh anyway sorry sorry to go on a tangent 
but I thought it's cool to kind of show that you   Know the sometimes the toddler even though cooler 
should kind of listen or learn from some of his   Grandpa's mistakes totally and and I think so to 
couple to that I think so you know because as as   Mentioned you know we did talk to Sun Tzu we did 
talk to you know SBF a few times uh we talked to   Machens scheme multiple times and we talked to 
Voyager Eric very great people by the way the   Larger team I still believe that they were unlucky 
and they were really cool people to be honest I   Think so the three others uh were definitely 
probably nice people but they had that same   Character that I've seen multiple times since the 
debut of my career in 2007 uh and and when I saw   Then I worked for you know eight years in hedge 
funds and you you could see that same pattern   Which is that yeah people just trade to trade and 
get numbers to make performance and and and you   Can make performance with certain strategies 
for a certain amount of time until the Black   Swan hits and I think so that that has to do 
a lot of what has happened here I think that   Anything that goes to Arbitrage usually works 
extremely well until it blows up and you see   With the Condor strategy with options and and 
I've seen that and seen that so many different   Times but but the the biggest disbelief which I 
think so is a bit sad coming from the 3ac and all   These guys you know that beautiful the gbtc 
trade everyone was doing it until you should   Never do it it's USD everyone got into it but 
probably a lot of people knew it was going to   Blow up eventually and I think so the biggest 
problem of what I've seen here is people living   The dream and the hopium but more importantly the 
biggest flaw what I saw is three things first as   A yield is not a yield if you don't know where 
the yield is coming from you are the yield right   That's what we all agree on and we all say 
right and and back then talking to Voyager by   Talking to to all these to these different C5 guys 
Celsius whatsoever to like oh we're all doing D5   I'm like okay but uh we don't see your wallet 
we know everyone's wallets so we know like for   Example uh who's doing element Define who's not 
doing D5 because it's very easy to follow these   Guys right you know we that's what we all do 
in crypto right we follow alameda's wallet   Everyone knew which was all I might as well 
it we knew pretty much what they were doing   In defy and and all that but then when you 
see that Celsius is saying like yeah we're   A big in D5 I'm like nah you're loaning your 
capital for people to doing margin Trading   And I'm not saying this is a wrong business this 
is probably still a good business Kraken does it   Extremely well and Kraken has not blew up by the 
way and then I don't think so kraken's ever going   To blow up to be honest uh they might have face 
different issues with with the SEC whatsoever but  

It's a very credible business and they know how to 
liquidate their positions they're not that they're   They're in the game for a long time so I think 
so that was one of the big problems first that   We were seeing and we were always asked by many of 
these guys even during uh you know when everything   Was falling up and everything was blowing up with 
Celsius you know Alameda coming to us and asking   For like you know 500 million dollars of loans 
and things like that with either like now man   If we're not gonna lend any of our money right 
now which that back then did alert us to some   Extent you're like okay why are they asking us to 
lend them money if they're buying out all these   Different companies now who has a conversation 
with that um Alameda was it Caroline Trabuco   There was few people there was ramnik and three 
other people that we were there was SPF at some   Time but then when the whole you know I would say 
we were quite in contact until mayesh with with   These guys and then a little bit less after uh and 
they asked you for a loan and they didn't want to   Collateralize it or how did that conversation work 
that you're like I don't think so the conversation   Was like less than 10 minutes it was like guys can 
you loan us some ether we're like no okay bye yeah   They didn't go further down like but if you want 
to invest in our company because back then we were   Doing a fundraise too so and they were interested 
that was where the initial conversation was as as   BF and myself had many talks about him investing 
into swissburg first was the token then he was   Like oh I want some shares then we were like oh 
we're not doing essentially shares this was like   Oh I'm not interested anymore so I said but we 
still have tokens and the tokens they were not   Interested that was back in 2020 and then 2021 and 
then 2022 we had less conversation essentially uh   But yeah the second problem that I would say that 
that a lot of people were facing here is uh then   They were doing the same that lending it to 3ac 
which by the way I still think that 3ac did a lot   Of cool stuff uh they wanted to invest into us by 
the way in Maine that was weird as well this then   Blew up and we didn't talk to them anymore uh they 
were doing a lot of smart things but again they   Were providing a yields and they were not giving 
like a fun structure which any fund manager would   Have the conversation size don't spoil it I have 
the conversation can I share with you guys word   For word I just found it on telegram is that okay 
sci-fi if I cut you off yes I'll literally tell   You exactly exactly what happens for AC and this 
is pretty funny so May 3 2022 uh thanks so much   For the call I can imagine His Name by respects 
do you have any documentation on your yields for   Corporate accounts hi Alex we don't have any 
documentation any documentation as all as we   Only face institutional clients and they don't 
need documentation so there's a big LOL there   Right that's the beginning of the conversation 
usually we Face the counterparties that have yield   Products that face retail so we like the B2B to C 
model I guess that doesn't help though can always   Hop on on a call in the future so I was like okay 
let's just keep in touch right uh fast forward uh   To June 1st 2022. who are you talking guys uh 
this is a 3ac one of the main guys at 3ac okay  

So um fast forward a little bit you know this is 
now June 1st 2022 and I don't know if you guys   Remember but the defy yields all of a sudden 
normalized so you we used to be the cool cats   Offering really high yields we had 34 on usdc with 
quite low risk um but then as you guys know right   The whole defy yield thing is moved towards realt 
uh and now all of a sudden we're we're struggling   Right we're having like three four percent and the 
community was very unhappy um but it was coming   From T5 so we didn't have any options so then 
we follow up on June 1st 2022 and I'm like um   So just for you to better understand if you don't 
have documentation could you at least send us your   Strategy so we can look at it and he essentially 
says that we have a delta neutral strategy that's   Trading on options so as Cyrus was saying guys 
right the three lessons for yields is if it's too   High and constant if it's regular then it's like 
likely to fail uh if you do not know your yields   You are the yield the second one and trading is 
not yield you know that those are three things   That I think we need to really make sure people 
understand that that's the most important like if   You're investing into multi-strategy quantitative 
option hedge fund that's fine you know you're   Paying two percent twenty percent performance 
fee and you know what's your risk and it doesn't   Matter and you know what your liquidity as well 
right it sells this to the beginning they were   Not that liquid I think so there were like three 
three weeks didn't really have a real thing but   They had the guy was like were not super liquid 
and then they're like yeah but the Swissport guys   Or these guys they're giving that are like well 
we're giving staking and yield farming it's on   Ave and compound and and different other things 
we can we could even be liquid within hours right   Or in seconds it's uh those things are liquid 
and I think so this is where it started to slip   Around it's like I just we're jigging absolute 
return based on margin trading option trading a   Lot of different quantitative strategies and then 
which I don't know I just saw the the cafe Zilla   It looks like actually it was more Ponzi schemes 
than than I don't know if it's true or not I have   No clue about that but still trying to offer 
higher yields for just bringing more AUM and we   Definitely suffered a lot everyone was like oh you 
guys at Swissport you guys you know you suck you   Only give us five percent and you neither those 
Gap gives us 15 are like yeah man there's no free   Risk did you guys feel fomo like it was working 
for a while oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah it's the   Yeah it's the worst sensation because you're 
you're you're building the best thing possible   And and you're you're everyone's flying from 
your platform because people still uh believe   That the other risk is better and and and and I 
do have a so I do have an actual specific part   Um that I think justifies why we do this guys 
you know why people still look for high yields   And good opportunities for me the way I break 
down the crypto demographics you know the average   Person I think correct me if I'm wrong guys 
it's someone where in terms of wealth is more   Like in the middle class so middle class well 
very high literacy because they're learning a  

Lot and they want to make wealth High motivation 
as well because they really want to make wealth   So if you take those components right you think 
about someone who's middle class High literacy   High motivation they're seeking for life change 
changing games while the rich people are looking   More to preserve their wealth right it's it's a 
very it's almost like a cross on a curve right so   Um and I think that's why right which 
unfortunately and then on top of that   The genes and D5 not everyone has come back from 
uh come from a traditional Financial background   Where you know risk mitigation risk risk risk is 
really ingrained into your brain um but uh I don't   Know I I think that's probably the excuse on why 
people are looking for these type of opportunities   So nothing wrong against them it's just it was 
a really hard time for us oh here there's an   Elephant in the room we need to talk about there's 
an elephant in the room we need to talk about but   Before I ask you this question going back to 
Sam bankman freed in your conversations or you   Know you know indirect dealings with sandbankment 
freed over the years you am I correct in saying   That you thought there are some shady stuff going 
on but did you ever think there was direct fraud   No no I I was even 100 sure there wasn't 
direct fraud because I knew that this guy   Was going to be a politician so why would 
he go fraud why would you want to fraud   I think so which happens to a lot of kids right is 
that you get to clean your room and sometimes you   Put some toys under your bed on your bed right and 
then maybe suddenly one day you start playing with   Matches it gets a little bit on fire and and 
then you start doing stupid [ __ ] so that's   What happened the guy was super smart uh uh but 
not but not like he didn't have a track record   He did some Arbitrage between Korea and Japan like 
everyone was doing back then ourselves as well I   Even asked Alex back then it's like do you want 
to do Swiss board or do you want to set up a fund   Because we can make billion dollars just you going 
to to um are sending Bitcoin and you selling it on   Um bit flyer or changing your yen into Dollars 
going back and doing that loophole and all   Everyone knew it and then Korea was even bigger 
it was five percent spreads right so he didn't   Have such a a big I would say uh experience of an 
investment manager and I think So eventually they   Caught up to him that it you know he was trying 
to cover position by covision and and then you   Know putting other people to make sure that's he's 
gonna play this out and then he thought that ftt   Was the token that was the new Bitcoin and you're 
able to to get even higher leverage and and then   It goes to the Madoff right you start 
to to believe into your lie and and   Eventually well there's a guy who turns out 
that he's not your friend then he says that   You're gonna blow up and and that's what binance 
and CeCe did right so I don't think so he he he   Wanted to get there just that ego very similar 
to long-term capital managements that mixed up   With murder with Madoff himself the few calls 
I had with him was always in the middle of   The night super awkward I was like why'd you 
call him at three o'clock in the morning uh  

He's like oh it's a Sunday you know it's good 
for Sunday so he had weird things going on so   But uh it looked like more like a HTT type of guy 
a little bit like me but like 10 times worse and   Um and someone was too big for his boots by 
the way guys I just found one of the last   Messages from three AC from that conversation 
we talked about earlier and on June 3rd 2022   Which I believe is a month prior to blowing 
up they asked to borrow East usdc and Bitcoin   From us offering us three percent APR on 
bitcoin five on East and 15 on Stables so   That was one month before 3ac actually uh blew 
up so and what did you think so rather than try It's really funny that that I see it now right 
because I didn't really revisit it that much   But since you guys said you know let's talk about 
the crap that happened last year so we can learn   Lessons from it right um I'm I'm actually thinking 
oh my God I could have seen this earlier if I was   Paying attention and why didn't you give it to 
them because you didn't they didn't give you any   Due diligence with that yeah they were selling 
things yeah but the way they were selling things   Austin is that it was really like a car salesman 
like you know they didn't want to provide a number   One any like strategy or any clear uh information 
but on top of that their their main line was hey   We're we're the biggest lender in the entire 
industry you know everyone lends from us and   They would just put the name of the people so they 
would use the you know the some sort of social   Proof tactic to persuade us right but that's the 
same mind hey guys we're the biggest lender in   Industry look at all the companies we're working 
with and that's that was the same line coming   Back and back again trying to make us look like 
once but you know obviously again I think so the   Why we didn't invest is that it was an investment 
it wasn't lending or yielding right you don't lend   Money to money managers that doesn't exist you 
invest into a fund it's as clear as that as an   Investment mandate has a fund feeder fund maybe 
in in Europe or in uh and and Delaware and for   The states and then you have a master fund that's 
in the Cayman it's the old business for 25 years   Old it's nothing new and I potentially I would 
have invested into the fund and give them you   Know they would make two percent and twenty two 
percent management fees 20 performance fees but   Like giving the funds of our users there it's just 
impossible it's not even legal for ourselves first   Uh seconds it would not never match our liquidity 
third it would never match the risk of of what we   Want to give to our users and the third is just 
that it's not on our mission our mission is not   To give money to hedge fund managers is eventually 
to to decentralize the world and and for that defy   These protocols such as I have a compound pancake 
Swap and uni swap are not maybe the best uh 100   Decentralized but they are leaning towards our 
mission and I think so that's that's that's why   We never landed same to Celsius they're very 
like oh we're going to give you the best yield   And all of that and and this the saddest story 
of this was when we finished the the talk 2049   I think it was in April uh in London and I was 
saying well this is what's going to happen to D5  

Is that it's the it was a picture from 
2007 that I was it was coming from the   Uh uh the subprime 2008 when the subprimes 
happened the economists did a very nice thing   On talking like what was CTO squares and where 
it was coming from and all these mortgage-backed   Securities and all that and the flipping and 
that's how the economy fell in 2008 right and   I said this is gonna exactly gonna happen to D5 
because right now people are patching together   Products that don't work don't have the same 
liquidity you don't have the same risk and if   One Falls and blows up then other ones are going 
to flow and blow up and that's what always happens   And and uh the guys from Nuri in Germany that 
was a really sad one uh so Neri was a really   One of the coolest uh European exchange at the 
same time like a wallet for for credit cards   Yeah we were at talks with them and they're 
like oh how are you doing your D5 or like oh   We do it all by ourselves and they're like oh 
do you do it for other companies we're like no   We just do it for ourselves but cop your wallet 
do the same thing if you want and they're like   Oh no we don't have a team for that unfortunately 
that we're going to give our our money to Celsius   And I just made a a face and like uh you 
know and into like what's your face I'm like   I wouldn't do them it's it's not be I don't trust 
the fact that you don't know where your money is   Going is going and you don't know where the yield 
is coming from that is the recipe for disaster   And two months later it was [ __ ] horrible 
these guys got caught in and they're now bankrupt   And it's it was a six seven years company in 2014 
so even more eight-year-old company one of the   Oldest European one and and and and and there's 
so many more examples that because people always   Think about cell says how they blew up people's 
Fortune directly but a lot of their money was   Actually B2B as well and that had a lot of 
repercussions on a lot of yeah uh you know   Other citizens around the world by the way by the 
way Aaron and Austin just real quick uh Cyrus just   Dropped some Alpha that there so you can literally 
follow Swissport CL strategies by yourselves guys   So you don't have to use our products this goes 
against our our business interests but uh and the   Reason why I think it's it's a great idea to do 
that especially from the US is you know Swissport   Is really focusing on risk first and the way we 
do the risk assessments it's really amazingly   Done so it goes through our code experts who go 
all the way from GitHub it goes to the platforms   Code as well then it goes through smart contract 
developer risk and it goes through the quants   Um so the system we put in place there it's 
it's amazing how much work is put into trying   To mitigating this risk um and there's everything 
from they'll score hey do you guys have the source   Court availability is the front UI Point pointing 
to the correct smart contract what about the admin   Risk what a so maybe I can continue so adminar 
is team risk we talk to the teams uh as much as   We can look at the token we look at the liquidity 
of the tokens we look at the pool the max size of   The pools so we really looked through like seven 
to different eight different risk metrics we score  

Them on a daily basis we try to really as well 
do ongoing due diligence to make sure that like   Whenever there's updates whenever there's things 
that change if TDL changes whatsoever we we really   Monitor all this risk and uh yeah we love doing 
that you know that's we have you know a lot of   People at Swiss board here 200 people and we have 
quite a big D5 team as we're getting to our last   Couple questions I have one more topic I wanted 
to cover I alluded to this a couple minutes ago   We talked about sand bankman freed we talked 
about FTX three Arrow Capital Celsius the elephant   In the room you guys have inside knowledge 
dealing with these Heavy Hitters in crypto   Do you think binance is 100 
solid or what's your experience We're trying to get our token listed there 
for five years and we haven't managed I don't know I should be truthful or 
not you know I I saw CZ recently and   Uh I really have strong respect for what 
they've built uh I really believe that uh   Uh you know born out of an Ico and and being 
able to service so many users around the world   In a non-regulatory fashion I still think this 
is super cool as a person I I really really uh   My props to CZ and the entire team and especially 
doing that is initially out of Singapore and then   In as well China you know it's a really huge thing 
to do so for that reason I think so the guys that   Have done this congrats then now what's going 
forward there's definitely some things that I   I mean we trust binance we we we're aggregated 
with the finance so that's one thing for sure   They do play some like dodgy things which is 
not really cool you know there's this whole   Brisk that's going on with busd we know that uh we 
know that their chat Gateway is being cut more and   More so those those those have some risks uh we 
know that you know the solvency is something that   They've really pushed to show how big they are 
we're seeing that today uh most of old exchange   From Sexes is actually on binance so will they be 
here in the future I'm pretty sure however I'm I   I'm the only thing I'm a bit worried about and I 
think so even CZ himself already agreed on this   Is that they are centralizing a lot of power into 
what is happening in crypto and you know what we   Saw recently with things being supported on BNB 
chain and on ethereum how they are getting out of   Circle out of want to get out the fight between 
Circle and their vusd and how they could take   Sides of this business and eventually centralize 
a lot what we're doing here and and that's   Where I'm a bit more afraid uh somewhere on the 
philosophical and and making sure that uh binance   Does believe in the decentralized in philosophy of 
of crypto and I think as well it's always hard to   Know who are the shareholders where is the company 
based things that that we for example are exactly   On the opposite we really try to become as neutral 
as possible very Swiss and boring maybe for that   But I think so it's very important to be neutral 
when you're in the exchange or in business in   General and then you really have to push yeah 
decentralization asset core but besides that   I'm pretty sure binance will be here for long and 
uh yeah and the probably the biggest risk I mean I  

Have great I have great respect for CG as well um 
I think he he did some crazy things and you know   It's really hard guys right because you can do it 
the way like Swissport like Cyrus was saying the   Swiss boring way where you kyc every single person 
from the very first Ico person uh Community member   Or you just break all the rules when there are no 
rules actually right you're not even breaking the   Rules because there's no regulatory framework for 
crypto at the time so the guy just goes running   Right he just goes running running uh I can do a 
few naughty things as a kid blah blah blah blah   And then all of a sudden you know when one comes 
an adult comes and says hey bad boy you shouldn't   Be doing that you can simply say oh I'm sorry I 
didn't know and you know you can play the innocent   Card but in in the in the game Finance right they 
they just went running running running and made so   Much money where a lot of the banks have built 
themselves up the same way right and once you   Have lots of capital then you can work on the 
regulatory side hire the betterers in the world   And defend you because at the end of the day there 
were no clear regulations so don't punish me or   Don't Point finger at me so it's either that way 
or you do it the Swissport boring way where you   Kyc the first member from the Ico onwards right 
and and our growth was a lot slower obviously than   A binance so there are two ways of doing it but 
what I worry the most for buying what I wear the   Most about Finance is being scapegoated that's 
what I worry about guys if there's one of The   Regulators that really wants to flex his hustles 
and really try to scare the industry uh they will   Definitely go after the biggest fish right you 
know when you have a bad kid in in class and he's   Making a master he's doing some things you know 
you're definitely going to try to punish or call   Out the bad kid first so the strongest kid so that 
the others follow or same thing for anything you   Know in life so I'm worried about the scapegoating 
and and I think binance are are smart enough to   To realize that they need to invest and defy real 
real defy um protocols and start really investing   In different type of very promising projects or 
build their own projects that that are a little   More suited to The Regulators because you know 
you can't just go out there and buy an exchange in   Japan a shell company that has a license but then 
connected to the binance order books it doesn't   Work like that right like The Regulators don't 
don't accept that you can't just buy licenses   Or I'm going to buy a bank in Albania because 
it's cheap and then I'm going to kind of bring   That volume to the the binance that's based in 
Dubai that used to be you know in Singapore it   Won't work just like in the US right you guys saw 
with binance us um they cannot have a back door   For the finance world or the exchange so I think 
that's the thing that I worried about the most and   And even some of my friends here in in Dubai 
they're they're concerned about that as well   The Regulatory crackdowns and potentially being 
scapegoated appreciate it so they shared their   Um assets recently proof of proof 
of Reserve proof of assets there's   Some question on liabilities but in your 
opinion binance is okay they're solvent

And if they're not solvents we're going 
to probably go for crypto winter forever Or for a long time at the least uh that's for 
sure uh but yeah I think so more transparency   I think so and more regulation uh will probably 
change and I'm sure binance will make the right   Move they're already doing it and they're making 
a lot of efforts on this and uh you know the the   Day we are starting to go into security tokens 
and all these aspects uh that there's more than   Just buying and selling crypto and offering 
cooler products and and all that you will   Need to be more regulated and if you're not 
well then essentially is going to be more and   More complicated to offer these cool things 
right so for example Swiss board right now   We're doing our series a it's our community 
that's investing in it 14 000 people it's   Amazing uh we raise 16 million dollars so far 
uh this is eventually going to be a token right   And and the token will itself is that if you're 
not regulated you don't have a security token   Exchange license well then you won't be able to 
distribute that and you're going to see more and   More companies that are probably going to tokenize 
their their their shareholder uh of their company   And for that well you need all these licenses so I 
that that's where I'm going to see maybe you know   Was very interesting like like in the hedge funds 
it reminds me about the hedge funds you see a lot   Of hedge funds growing very rapidly and send them 
growing down and then some rapid lean going down   If you look at the last 20 years and of course 
some have been big and all and always been big but   If you remember Austin and Aaron back in 2017 do 
you remember what was one of the biggest Exchange Cryptopia that was a small one yeah that was one   It was not the biggest but it was 
definitely a big one other ones   Bitfinex right that's true that was still a 
one but bittrex was what quite a big one yeah   Not that big anymore uh if you look at one 
of the biggest one was the one that Justin's   Son bought out uh no the other one uh it was 
done in the states by a french guy uh anyways I was in Japan no no no no but there was different 
other exchanges That Grew and and then reduced   Their activity and and you you see that all 
in all and I think so there's still a lot of   Chances that we will see another one grow much 
more and some other ones that will essentially   Shrink their activities due to multiple 
different yeah business issues I would say   Gentlemen can I share with you one last one Alex 
you take it guys yeah so you know for the for   The dexes and also for all the Sexes out there 
right the proof of life liabilities have to be   Some sort of external audit right to see if you 
have any sort of you know collateral or leverage   That's not on chain or maybe you you know some 
of your money some of your yields are coming from   These yeah these forges or some you know high-risk 
loans or stuff like that right so that's one thing   I would love to have um proof of liabilities on 
chainsaw audited but also stamped on chain I think   That that could be a massive step forward but my 
Ultimate Dream guys you know like um when it comes  

To that good old grandpa uh Uncle CFI you know 
Uncle Chad fi that talks to his little nephew D   Feiner is to avoid number one you know everything 
that's happening D5 today like last month alone we   Had another 130 million dollars in hacks in D5 and 
and those things need to stop right since instead   App there's been so much money lost and I think 
that could avoid it if we look at some of the the   Risk assessment or the risk evaluations systems 
that we that we have from chat Phi but you know   I think really that the most beautiful thing about 
combining the on-chin and off chain worlds that my   Brother always used to say like I have I feel the 
urge to merge the on-chain and off chain worlds   Is really to from the fundraise not going through 
the VCS right not not going to the VC model doing   It through the community of fundraise so that 
rather than having four or five people four or   Five companies or or funds having you know 
thousands of people um because that that's   One thing like if you're an on-chain project but 
you raise through four to five VCS then you screw   Yourself over it because then your governance 
is centralized as well and and decentralized   Governance is one of the most important Tools in 
nd5 right so if you raise funds through limited   Amount of people then you're you're screwing 
up your decentralized governance at least for   The first three six nine to 12 months and you guys 
have seen that right with Paulie um what was it um   Poly Capital right with um compound so I really 
think that um what needs to be decentralized it   Starts all the way from the fundraise because then 
that transfers into governance you can still try   To grow the protocol and potentialize afterwards 
but having that decentralized governance is key um Video or semasterial guys you know where 
maybe it's it's non-custodial but you have   Some potentialized vaults where you 
can store your private keys so if I   Die tomorrow and Austin and you're my 
cousins uh maybe we can have some sort   Of multi-sake where you guys can still sign 
it for me and then unlock all the funds right Obviously execution needs to be Unchained we 
still need that interoperability uh because you   Know Bitcoin ethereum it's it's very complicated 
right to do this on chain still erc20 is amazing   But I still feel like D5 is in its point where 
you have these little tribes around the world but   There's no Bridge or there's no plane to fly over 
to the next country or Island you're stuck on on   Your in your Island and you have to take this raft 
boat you know with sharks and stuff all around you   That are going to eat you a lot right that's the 
way I see um G5 still on the execution side um so   That interoperability will be absolutely key with 
the cross chain um features and then and then it's   Beautiful right because once you hit that model 
you know when you have this chord from where some   Of you some of us right when we love a brand let's 
say we love Nike or whatever or Spotify or Netflix   We're just a a user of a product but we're not 
an investor we're not a part of the governance   We're not a part of the product development and 
we're not a part of the the and and of course   On top of that we're a user so I think you know 
as you guys see like I don't know if the Dao is  

Really really feasible through automation uh that 
sounds like a big challenge if that's realistic   Or not and correct me if I'm wrong Austin Aaron 
but I think the corporate the permit not only   Should be inverted but it should be open so that 
really you can really have a community uh LED and   Community Centric and Community Driven companies 
the dream for me I think that's a great way to end   It appreciate you guys coming on the show today 
links to their personal twitters down below give   Them a follow if you're a part of the 60 of our 
audience who's outside of America go check out   Swissport linked below Cyrus Alex give us final 
thoughts for the altcoin daily audience yeah I   Mean continue to to Really pass on the love that 
you have for for crypto for web 3 decentralization   And and and that's the most beautiful thing 
especially right now we know that we Face 2022   Was was a very difficult one I think so the beauty 
is that web3 is not just going to grow from here   It's going to exponentially grow and there's so 
much to be done and uh yeah your voice is heard by   Many people and let's just accumulate the number 
of peoples to bring into the decentralization   And and more than ever I think so this planet 
really needs it because if if we're not leaning   Towards there sooner or later we're going to be 
trapped into something there will be no exit doors Alex yeah beautifully said and I I have to say 
guys like Austin and Aaron um I don't fomo or I   I don't fan bull very often but when I did see you 
two guys I did Fanboy a little bit I tried to keep   My cool I tried to keep my cool but uh there are 
a few people that I met I really respect you guys   You know you guys coin Bureau I've been on text or 
the guys where I I kind of fanboyed but I tried to   Keep my phone come on I'm 42 years of age you know 
I can't I can't be like a little cheerleader but   I love what you guys are doing I think you're 
you're the great face for for this industry Um and representatives great evangelists 
ambassadors Educators however you want to   Call each other uh and you guys and Eric vuories 
by the way Eric buis I think is probably uh   One of my favorite D5 figures I think he's he's 
probably the king when it comes to representing   Who we are but you guys are the princes wow 
appreciate that and you did keep your cool   In Dubai it was awesome meeting you you guys 
are cool guys and uh you know happy happy to   Do this now but uh thank you guys so much for 
coming on today thank you thanks so much boom


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