How To Compete Without Losing Your Mind Or Runway When Cash Is Expensive

Wow I can't believe this these are People that I have talked to on the Phone or Zoom countless times and I'm Actually sitting here in person with Both of you at the same time I can Hardly believe this so thank you thank You so much for being here Um Ruth thank you for joining us I'm Really excited about this panel first of All for those of you who don't know These two operate in the spend Management space Eric CEO and co-founder Of ramp theyjo of Air Base They are competing companies they're Great Sports to be here together and I'm I'm excited to hear all about how how it Is to be competing in fact that is the Main topic of this panel right now the Spend management category that they're In is getting increasingly crowded as a Reporter I can't tell you how many Pitches I've been getting over the past Couple of months with a new a different Company going into the spend management Space like it just keeps getting more And more crowded so what that means for Players who've been in this space for a While is more and more competition and Now we're also dealing with a Challenging fundraising environment Capital is not as easy to come by it's Not as cheap so very curious How are you able to preserve Runway at a Time like this when you're still trying

To compete with all the existing players And the new ones that are coming up Maybe I can go first and thank you for Having us and uh it's great to see Everyone and you know from my Perspective we are maybe in a little bit Of a fortunate position because we ended Up raising you know pretty big rounds in 2021 so from a Runway perspective you Know at least we have a line of sight Into multiple years and coming into this Year we definitely took another look at The focus and and what we absolutely Want to uh you know make sure we focus On and extend that Runway another six to Eight months so we did some of those Things but largely you know we've been In a comfortable spot and as for the the The category being crowded and more Players entering into it I think what's Going to become more and more important The good news is that it's a huge Market It's a huge kind of uh category every Business spends money right and so What's going to become important over The next five years uh at least in my Opinion is the segments that you go After right and and who is your customer And getting very specific about Segmentation positioning and as long as You have defined that who's your ideal Customer and you try not to be Everything to everybody I think it's a Large enough market that if you execute

Well things will be fine and that's how We are approaching it it's not a winner Take all space right I keep hearing that Okay yeah at least not in my opinion Yeah Yeah Eric how about you yeah happy happy To share and look we're one of the newer Entrants we uh we started three and a Half years ago and today our Fortune Support over 10 000 companies on our Focus From the get-go has been how do You help companies spend less money uh Went from a nice idea something we think All business owners want to be more Efficient want to be more profitable to Now an environment where the cost of Capital has really gone up we think that Offerings that really help companies cut Their spend by three and a half percent Per year close their books faster more Relevant than ever I would say for us Though just in how we're trying to help Our companies be more efficient through Software we try to model our own Approach to it and so over I think over The summer Marianne you reported that we Well over 80 percent of the funds that We have already still in balance sheet That still is the case we were still Endeavoring to be very efficient as a Company and also deploy software that Helps our customers achieve the same Outcome How is your allocation of capital

Shifted though yeah I think the biggest Thing so when that the cost of capital Has gone up so much Um and so there are investors on the Outside that in a risk-free way can Return a lot more I think you need that Same approach to your own allocation and So for one of the things that we've done At our business has been look at Um you know cost of acquisition Um to fully earning back the cost Deployed and we've reduced that Threshold and so our view is that we Want to grow as fast as possible but at A much faster tolerance and so in that Same way where you can earn higher yield Elsewhere applying that rigorous Framework to where you choose to deploy Capital we think is the right approach For this environment Yeah for us it's mostly about Focus as I Was speaking about right so we have Historically been very focused on the Mid-market and early Enterprise right a Better way to think about that is about 100 employees to a few thousand Employees that's what we've been focused On and uh you know there was a time when We were in the crazy 2021 period where Uh you know there was all the insanity Around investment in this space and Investors were willing to pay 100x 200x Multiples on 20 gross margin revenues And all of that kind of stuff we did you

Know towards the end of last year say Hey you know what we should probably uh Try to operate in that mode a little bit Because you know that's not what we were Doing we were very focused on Subscription revenue and high margin Subscription revenue and net ARR and not Gross AR and some of those kinds of Things and then so we started going down That path and I guess a silver lining From a focus perspective coming into This year for us has been you know what None of that matters and then you really Stick to what we have always done which Is focus on the mid-market uh and and That meant that we freed up resources in A bunch of ways gave us an additional Runway and that's kind of what we've Been doing right so I guess what I'm Hearing from both of you is that you You've kind of operated fairly Conservatively even before this downturn And that you're continuing with that Mindset Yeah so value number one for air base a Company value for us is control your own Destiny right and Airbase isn't my first Startup and and I built and sold another One before there's something much like Eric and made every mistake in the book Right and and we could probably spend a Long time just talking about some of Those and the as I was thinking about Starting a base working on a new company

I asked myself what did I learn what am I going to do differently and the first Thing in that list was uh control your Own destiny I wasn't very smart about That the first time around so Capital Efficiency and making sure that we are Always controlling our own destiny and And raising a little more than we need And all of those kind of puts and takes That happen when you're thinking of your Financing strategy I'd like to think We've done a better job this time around But that is always at least for us being A part of the DNA of the business right Yeah I mean I I it's it's funny you Can't cut your way to an enormous market Like you have to be out there being bold And and look as much as this category Has become an important I think just Talked about theme in the startup world Is you add up all the new age corporate Card players maybe it's a few percentage Points maybe maybe of the whole Market When you look at B2B payments uh it's Basis points and so I still think for The vast majority of people really Thinking through Um where can you be adding value how can You seek to to connect with these Customers to prove and show and add Value every day that is where we spend Most of our focus and overwhelming as a Portion is on that but we do try to be You know thoughtful and look back and

And be diligent it's okay we deployed X Many hundred thousands here Millions There did we see the return that we Anticipated actually play out and if not Um You know react to that data I I would Say so it's it's uh complex but Hopefully that's helpful does that mean You're not fundraising right now No we at least we aren't because we have Like you know very healthy Runway ahead Of us and look also if you look at the Macro environment right now I think There are basically three categories of Startups that raise if you raised last Year right three categories one is your Either moderately overvalued or you're Very overvalued or you're in la la land And you just haven't realized that yet Right and so uh and so from that Perspective it's going to take I I have No problem this is what I tell my team Is that while we've been very careful in Terms of controlling our own destiny When we raised our last round this is Something that uh you know a lesson I've Learned having made those mistakes in The past is when you raise a round of Funding the key question I think you Should ask yourself is how much Capital Am I adding to the business right now What valuation am I signing up for you Want the next round to be an up round Right and even though the the multiples

May be at a certain level today what Might they be in 18 months 24 months and If I have to go deliver an up round what Should the growth of Revenue be in you Know between now and those next 18 Months you want to make sure you're not Getting ahead of yourself right and so That's kind of the math you're trying to Do at all times it's hard right because You can't predict uh you know if the Market is totally crazy today what will Will those those multiples be 18 months From now 24 months from now that's Really hard to do so from that Perspective I would argue that you know That's just a fact right if you look at Compatibles in the public markets and Things like that you know even we are Moderately overvalued the only question Is is it going to take you 12 months to Grow into that or three years to grow Into that or five years to grow into That and that's kind of what you really Have to ask yourself and and uh you know That's how we're approaching it right Um Ruth as an investor how are you Advising your portfolio companies right Now I know there's a lot of the word Panic I don't know if that's an Exaggeration but I know a lot of Founders are nervous these days about Can they preserve their Runway and still Compete how do they do it what advice Are you giving them

Yeah so I think there have been a bunch Of important points already raised on Stage and I would say you know this idea That you can sort of project yourself Into the future and be able to predict What the multiples are going to look Like You know this is a sentiment driven Industry and When the Music's playing Everybody dances and the people who Danced in 2021 and raised a bunch of Capital you know enough Capital to hit Break even with maybe a little bit of You know burn cutting are probably Feeling pretty good and the folks who Really either under raised or didn't Raise or raised Capital at a valuation That they're where they're really not Going to be able to close the gap Between where multiples were and where They are now are are slightly panicked And I think that from my perspective There are a couple things you know a Couple of dynamics that are happening in The market Capital moves really fast I Think that there is a change there is an Adjustment it really depends what stage The company is at so I invest in Companies all the way from pre-seed Through you know series C and and Anthemus is a kind of multi-stage asset Management platform and so we see Everything the earlier stage companies Are probably feeling the pinch a little

Bit less than the later stage companies But you know Founders are panicked and Even worse boards are panicked and I Think that that's you know if you're an Investor in the audience that's one Thing I would say is when you bring that Panic or that anxiety level into the Boardroom you're not helping anyone and And on the founder side you know don't Lose control of your board Um you know controlling your destiny is Part is partly about positioning Yourself in the board context as a Shareholder not getting in not being the Opera operational CEO in the boardroom Who's sort of brainstorming with the Board about you know should we do this Or should we do that I see a lot of that In these panic moments and I think you Know it behooves everybody to be really Lucid about the macro environment that We're entering it's likely to be Long-lived and it's very important to be Judicious but not lose sight of your Goals and and really the reason you Founded the business in the first place So everybody's you've been focused on The mid-market and you primarily earned Your revenue from subscription software Business right yep okay and then Ramp you have a card and you've mostly Earned your revenue from interchange Fees correct so you both you both have Been very focused on your products

Different products but very focused on Those and different Revenue models Over the past 10 months or so with this Change in the environment has your how Has your strategy shifted as a company Have you Diversified in terms of Revenue Like what what have you done to adapt Yeah look first of all let me say that We like all revenue so it doesn't really Matter if it's subscription or Interchange we will take all revenue and Try to maximize that but From a strategic perspective I've always Believed from the day I started working On air base you know in 2017 that the Longer term more durable revenue is the Subscription Revenue right so the at Least look that's a thesis I will tell How it plays out uh I may be right I may Be wrong but I've always believed that Just relying on interchange revenue is a Little too risky partly because uh you Know it has raised to the bottom Dynamics and it's always under kind of Uh pressure from somebody else coming And saying I'll just give you more cash Back and and those kinds of things right So we have focused on the breadth and The depth of the workflows related to How money is spent in a business and we Think of ourselves you know we're in a Mix of a B2B SAS and a fintech business Right so we do both but we think of us Ourselves as primarily a B2B SAS

Business the fintech element is really Important but it's an enabler and and a Way in which we solve the problem Dealing with money processing money yeah We we process billions and billions Every year now I think at this point It's like 5 to 6 billion and you know Continues to grow at a very rapid pace And so important element of how we solve The problem but you know it is not Really deeply connected to how we Monetize and extract value from the Business that we're ultimately building And that's how we've always approached It right yeah there's some areas I agree With you on there's others I totally Differ and I would say if you think About just the you know the major major Player who is not on stage with us that Has been around since the year 1850 is American Express and they are over 100 Billion dollar a year business Um Primarily valued on interchange revenues It's been a long around a lot longer Than subscription businesses have and I Think well they're great elements of SAS There's Um I I think that there's a lot of power In being able to go to a customer and Say my whole job is to create a product That is worth using and if you use it we Hope that you will get value out of it And we can participate in that

Um I think where I believe the industry got Lost along the way and part of what Motivated us to start ramp was I think It became people forgot Um With those profits you could use it to Go and create a reward Space Program Points and incentives people to spend More or if you really listen to Customers a lot of people are saying I Actually wanted more my bank account I Wanted to run my business more Efficiently and rather than using uh The Interchange revenue and margin to fund More extravagant reward programs buying More lounges we think the proper way to Do this is consider how can we develop Great experiences great software that Deliver value back to customers and that Was why we were the first in the space To go deep into expense management why We built build payments which has become The fastest growing part of our business And even Flex the launch that we're Grateful for for your coverage last Month has already become you know Multiple Millions per year in Revenue as A product for ramp and so we are looking At ways to continue to add value Beyond Just interchange but we think it's Actually there's a lot of greatness to That model into considering from a Customer first perspective how do I

Create more value for them deliver on That and make sure where we participate Well too Really quickly audience we are taking Questions so if you have any feel free To submit them there's a QR code that You can scan and submit your questions Okay Um So Obviously you know you have some Differences of opinions and that's great That's that's what this is all about Um I'm curious how much of what you do or How you operate is influenced by what Your competitors are doing Look we obviously we watch everybody in The space And it's become hard as you said there Are so many companies now it is hard to Keep track of uh just all the ones that Keep popping up but you know the key few Folks a product marketing team which is Their job uh to kind of do the Competitive analysis and all of that but You know beyond and to empower the sales Teams talking points here's how we're Different and all that kind of stuff Right but beyond that like I don't wake Up in the morning thinking about Competition because as I said earlier This is a massive massive market right Every business spends money so the real

Challenge for us is uh focus and asking Ourselves what segment of the market do We want to focus on right who are we Serving and and who can we be the best Partner to and focusing on that because Yeah we are pretty well capitalized but Even we don't have all the money to be Able to go and say look I want to serve Tens of thousands of small businesses I Want to serve thousands of mid-market Businesses I want to serve you know Hundreds of Enterprise companies and I Want to do all of that together because Especially if as you think about the Problem you know as a workflow problem Across AP build payments reimbursements Corporate cards the intake problem Syncing with GLS like the breadth and Depth of that problem is pretty large And we do all of those different Elements right and so saying that look That is the same problem that a five Percent company has and a 500 company Has and a 50 000 person company has They're not right at least in my opinion They're not in the very different uh Problems and so I really ask myself is The core mid-market early Enterprise Segment large enough for us to go build A public class company I think the Answer to that is yes I can point to a Number of other companies just selling It into the office of the CFO that have Done that and and so I wake up every

Morning asking ourselves are we Executing towards a kind of set of goals That when we control our own destiny and That's kind of how we do it and look I Don't know who it was was it uh you know PG over at YC uh you may remember Eric But I think YC always kind of both of us Our previous startups went to YC but uh Uh the the lesson was that look startups Are not murdered they commit suicide Right and and so uh for us it's not About somebody else coming in from the Outside and somehow uh crushing you it's More about your own execution and and That's usually the bigger reason for why You may or may not do well as if the Market is large you know some of these Other uh conditions have to also be met But that's how we approach it right I Mean I still have to I still have to think Though when you're operating in this Space and then all of a sudden you have Companies like Rippling or trip actions That started out doing completely you Know not completely but doing other Things like trip actions was focused on Travel expenses Rippling on HR workforce Management and now they've entered into Spend management I mean I'm not a Founder of course but like if that were Me I would feel a little bit you know Like No nervous I guess like about these

Other existing players that are doing Pretty well and what they're doing kind Of encroaching under my territory so I Don't know Eric how do you feel about That so so something that that or had a Product Um uh Jeff troll said to me that I found Very it was interesting when he said it And I was thinking about it I asked him How often do this exact question how Often do you look at competitor pages And he said I don't do it more than once A quarter it's a mind virus What like what is it like what do you Mean his whole view is this like look We've Got Deep relationships with Customers and these people are running Businesses they didn't start it to think About spend management they didn't think About it that you you don't build a Great business just by figuring out how Do I manage you know card expenses Reconciliation it's very important but They're trying to build their businesses And our whole relationship is based on The premise of if we are truly for Customers the best way for them to Become much more efficient to close Their books faster to understand their Expenses to make their business run more Efficiently they should pick ramp but we Need to earn their business every day And the best way to do it is not by Staring and looking at what else is

Everyone else doing Um and then how do we keep up with that Because there's too many different Directions we try to really think about What we'll solve and really first listen To whatever customers saying what are The real challenges that are causing Them to spend more time than they need To or more money they need to to run Their business Where I do think it's very interesting Is that the act of running a company is So complex and manual Um you know part of it I think what Fascinated us when we got into the space Was You needed a card you need to expense Management software you needed bill Payment software you needed accounting And accounting automation you might have Had middleware you needed travel there Was so much going on and so a lot of the Question is what's the right way to go Into it and so we try to observe and Understand how have others approached it From from two senses first what's their Their workflow what are the advantages To it also how are they positioning and How do we be different but to really Think about Informing what's right for our customers I think the people who really know best Our customers and and they'll tell you Really where they're having friction and

So we try to be obsessed with with that Side of it but um it's a it's a fun Space it's pretty fascinating the best Thing about B2B versus consumer Businesses also right with B2B Businesses once you get to a certain Scale and you have a certain number of Customers the job really is to shut your Mouth and listen to the customer right Because they tell you every day what is Wrong and what are the gaps and and what Your roadmap should be and and so you Just go build that right and and yes you Have to edit based on what you're Hearing from from your customers but uh Absolutely agree like being customer Obsessed is a lot more important than Being obsessed about competition Ruth I'm as an investor again I'd love to Hear your perspective from the about This if you have you have portfolio Companies that that start out in a Particular space then all of a sudden There's a lot of new entrants Um How are you advising them in terms of Operating are you you know are they Examining are they considering how much Are they considering what these new Entrants are doing you know what what Are you telling them Um I guess it's you know again we've Touched on quite a few things Um I really competition is healthy is

What I tell them and you know most of The companies that I invest in I also Invest in the fintech space the space That these guys are operating in you Know many of our competitors are Extremely well capitalized very large Organizations that have absolutely low Cost of capital large established Distribution networks and huge Brands so If you're going in you know to have at It against those guys and you can't Compete with another startup you know That's will be tied you I think that you Know it's really important to understand What's going on in the market I think you know too much gazing into The market is like Founders you know Reading Twitter too much and calling me And saying you know what are we going to Do about this fundraising environment It's like You know really focus on the task at Hand but it is it's important to be Mindful of competition and uh to be Resilient and to always be building as If you do have you know an important Competitor and I think you can learn a Lot from you know great sports teams Um you know you want to be kind of Sportsmanly and you want to really Respect the competition and assume that They're better than you are and be out Practicing every day and working super Hard to build the most resilient product

That you can build I agree with that I'm Also curious Um as an investor Are you You probably are getting a lot of you Know a lot of pressure or you're getting A lot of questions from all sides you Know how are you handling that how are You staying calm how do you weather These Cycles without losing your mind Right I can imagine you're the you're The one that has to like project calm For your your portfolio companies Because if they see you looking nervous Or uncomfortable that's only going to Make them more nervous so how do you Manage how did you how do you manage That yeah I am calm um I don't you know I think that's our job I think that it's I had an interesting conversation with One of my Founders yesterday who said You know you're really lucky because you Have a portfolio of options and this is My only thing and and you know he's Right it's it is tremendously stressful I have a huge amount of empathy for Founders I think you guys do the hardest Work Um there is when it comes to business And our job is to be again to just Really be lucid and ask the right Questions and you know help navigate Difficult situations but I don't think That Panic helps and I think that you

Know I hope that Founders uh appreciate Investors who do remain calm and just Sort of continue with with business as Usual I know I would it looks like we Have a ton of questions from the Audience so I'm going to move on to Those Um One Ruth how would you approach the Process of cutting spending That's a great question I think it's a It's a it's a really interesting Question and I think Eric really noted You know there's the the old uh startup Adage of wanting to cut fat but not Muscle so I think you have to really Understand What are your core advantages and what Is essential you know like like you said You're not going to cut your way to a Billion dollar business That said I think in this environment Everyone probably needs to be taking a Look at at Runway and just understanding The different levers that they could Pull if necessary I like to I prefer to Ask companies to look at um just sort of Short-term objective setting and having Moments where we assess if we need to Make dramatic changes or even Incremental changes to the business on The basis of achieving short-term goals Actually that relates to another Question here any hacks as to how you

Can increase cash without raising Or not just you know off of Revenue I Think I think that the debt Market is Um you know has continued to be and and In this environment will be extremely The Venture debt Market extremely Important particularly for companies That did raise a substantial amount of Money recently it's the best time to go Out and get debt so I would I would Definitely be developing relationships With Venture debt providers So I was interested when we were going Through it earlier this year say we want To add X number of months of Runway and And then bring down Bond uh you know a Mistake I've made in the past is to say Look take every Department Got expenses by X percent right that Usually doesn't uh kind of produce the Right results and the approach we took Was largely to ask ourselves what are The Strategic initiatives that we are Working on right now we actually went a Little deeper and asked ourselves Because we think of ourselves as SAS Business uh if you want to get to a Particular magic number right efficiency And magic number what are you spending In each of the major initiatives that is Impacting that magic number and you know What is its contribution right so that Because what you're trying to do is to Say because those long-term initiatives

That you are investing in that is maybe Making you less efficient in the near Term which in in like hot funding Markets it's okay to be less efficient At the end of the day right because Investors are you know willing to give You the benefit of doubt if you are less Efficient but when markets you know Contract and tighten up like we are now Efficiency is important and you want to Be more efficient and so when you're Asking that question of how do I kind of Do the trade-off between what level of Inefficiency is acceptable or not you're Also trying to tie to initiatives that Produce long-term results right and for Us it might be things like if I want my Growth rate to be a certain percentage If I want to generate a certain amount Of Revenue next year and the year after That what will I need to do to generate A certain amount of Pipeline and what Are these initiatives how are they Connecting to those long-term goals that We are setting for ourselves you want to Kind of do it in those terms and it's a Little more concrete then right some Other great questions here I really want To try to get to Um another for Ruth are there ever any Sacred cows in this business So I'm going to try to interpret the Question correctly and if I don't you Feel free to to chat afterwards there

Are no sacred cows in an Investor's Portfolio and I think that is something That is going to be a difficult and Painful experience for some people to Learn during this kind of credit cycle That we're currently in investors are Not obligated to follow on in Investments that they've made and I Think that where you know the market has Been frothy and it's been actually quite Easy to raise Capital there's a sense That that Capital will always be Forthcoming especially from the folks Who are already around the table and That's just not true uh the and so it's Very important for Founders to Communicate with their investors about The conditions under which they will Continue to fund the company and to Communicate about that frequently it's Very important also in terms of setting Expect stations around when it's Appropriate to go to market for the next Fundraising round or you know what Outside investors will be looking for That's the principle I would say Contribution that an investor can have To a company is to help the company to Understand how investors think and what That capital or Equity narrative should Be on that note again we have some other Questions related to this how do you Recommend that Founders approach Communication during this period what's

The most common question that you're Getting from your Founders right now Wow those are really good questions very Good question um I think that you know Communication I guess is always best When it's calm and well prepared if you Want your investors to help you make a Decision uh make sure that they have Detailed data Um and if you haven't given them Detailed data and you think you're Making an important decision where you Need their opinion I would approach the Conversation really asking them what are The right questions to ask in order to Make this decision rather than getting Them operationally involved in the Business and you know I'm curious to Hear you guys opined about this question Because clearly you know you're on the Other side of the table I mean look I I think investors can be Extraordinary in the right context like Like I think if you're asking investors To or thank you board member like I I Truly genuinely believe it um and I'll Um even went to a lot of strategy but Like I think if you're asking it's like Look this detailed issue operational in The business where there's so much Context And strategy it's harder but it's like Truly I think where investors can be Extraordinary it's first long-term

Strategic one-way doors where you really Are looking at a deep look definitely Engage also too these are people who put A lot of capital the reputation and want To see the business succeed and say We've you know send regular updates make Asks to say like we're we've we've we've Marion's written into this quote a great Story about Ram could you share it with People or with companies that that Actually it's relevant for could you Connect us to someone Um engaging with people regularly in the Same way I think with you you hear from An old friend you haven't heard from for A while it means a lot to you think of Them more often I think that's true of Investors and these are people who are Building their their careers can be very Helpful and they can be useful and want To see you succeed and so Um I think Um I think good bad whatever it may be And do it often it really does help yeah Definitely your investors interests are Aligned with yours and so it's it's good To figure out a way to communicate and Always remember the board works for the Company right somebody smarter than me Taught me that early on don't put the Board on the pedestal they work for the Company and you've got to kind of you Know make sure that they're showing that Day in and day out

Yeah it's complicated because sorry to Interrupt you but the board works for The company but the The CEO reports to the board so it's a Very interesting balance yeah it's an Interesting Dynamic it must be it must Be very challenging to to navigate that We do have a couple a couple of Questions around competing Um one when it comes to competition is It about doing it better Or doing it differently and then Also when you're tight early stage you Have a tight early stage budget how can You best prior prioritize Differentiation I I think both of us have have a Somewhat similar approach which is uh I Think opinionated products are excellent By and large I think what a lot of People try to do when they think about Competition is all the variants of who Could this be relevant for how do you Build knobs levers cover all the use Cases I think it's better to be truly Extraordinary in the best solution Period in some way that you can Articulate and connect through over Doing everything for everyone and so for Us a lot of what that was about of is we Tried to measure how much money and how Much time have we saved your company Collectively we've saved our customers Over 300 million dollars help them on

Average closer books eight days sooner And that is what we are about we know Who the customers are for and we try to Be intentional about reaching out to These types of businesses and so I would Say better For the audience that you know and for Your real customers and if you can help Them succeed it helps certain us work Even today there's over ten thousand Businesses that use ramp over 30 percent Of the customers that use it uh were Referred or influenced by another Business it's very powerful I think it's Very rare that people feel strongly About the products that they use and if You can focus on that experience I think A lot of the rest takes care of itself And eventually when you're dealing in Enormous percentages of market shares Maybe the answer differs but I think for People out there building and trying to Innovate in a space I I think that's What works what are you willing to say No to right I think that becomes a very Important question uh you know in big Markets interesting product categories You can't fall into the Trap of trying To do everything right and you know we Say no a lot you know a lot of the Smaller kind of customers who reach out To us we actually send them to ramp and Lots of times our sales teams are we Help them trained are trained to tell

Them hey rample breaks may be a better Fit for you right and and we we aren't And and you I think you have to have the Discipline to know exactly who you are Trying to serve and and ultimately for Us in a market whether at different Business models and there are models Whether this is a free tool and you know And I I want to monetize in a different Way which is a perfectly valid way of Kind of approaching uh your business Strategy We have a different strategy of saying No you have to pay us right and so in That environment why do people Consistently pay us five figures and six Figures of subscription revenue on a Yearly basis when there are other free Tools available are they fools are they Idiots like no but there is a specific Reason why you will be able to make that Roi case you will be able to make this Case of look this is the breadth and Depth of the solution that you need here The global use cases here is how you Know the the AP bill payments use cases And reimbursements use cases and Corporate card use cases and the Complexity of global spin management Comes together and this is why you Should pay us even though there are Other free Solutions available but but That applies to a specific set of Customers and that business model

Applies and you can make it work if You're really focused and you're Ruthlessly saying no to a bunch of other Things that could distract you right Um we don't have a lot of time left so I Just I just want to say I really love That you you both have obviously very Different opinions about about this Whole space and how you how you operate Um but there's no brawl or fight if Anyone is expecting that to and Attending that's in the last minute yeah Okay we still have a couple of minutes Left so I really really appreciate that The level of respect here there's one More question I wanted to try to sneak In we don't have a lot of time left but Someone in the audience wants to know Ruth are you currently investing and if So how to reach you yes uh you can reach Me you can follow me on Twitter at Fox News That's foxe underscore news and you Can reach me at ruthananthemus.com we Are currently investing Yeah well great um that's the best Twitter handle that I've seen today I Would love to try to sneak in one more Question but we have like uh One minute I'm gonna I'm gonna try we'll Be we'll be really quick Um how do you think about building Things in-house versus using Partners we Got to be really succinct here if you Have any thoughts on that yeah I think

Where you can be differentiated have a Real Advantage build in-house and try to Build very fast production Um we care a lot about finding really Spiky people who can who can build Um and so for everything related to Savings workflow automations all that we Care a lot about but also part of how We've grown as fast as we have is there Are people who are extraordinary Thinking about the card infrastructure Bill payment infrastructure International you name it and we do Think that if you can have some of the Best engineering teams and apis in the World at your disposal the pricing is Right it's more efficient use of time You should use it Strong opinions weekly held have a Strong opinion about what is core for You and what is not build the things That are core and partner or buy for Everything else Great thank you all so much really Appreciate appreciate your being here Today and answering so many questions I Was trying to get everything in in a Short amount of time so apologize if I Didn't get to your question Um Thank you all for being here as well Thank you