How Many Bitcoin Do You Need To Be a TOP 1% Holder?

Bitcoin is a first it is an invention It's something wholly new like on the on The financial scene nothing like it has Existed before some people say you need 6.15 Bitcoin some people say just get to One some people say a fraction of Bitcoin is the threshold my question to You is how many Bitcoin do you think the Average person can comfortably Accumulate to be considered a top one Percent Bitcoin holder in the future Pete Rizzo has studied and written about Bitcoin since 2013. as one of the Original journalists in the crypto space Starting at coindesk now editor-at-large For Bitcoin magazine and Kraken today Pete Rizzo joins us to help answer the Question how many Bitcoin do you need to Become a top one percent Bitcoin holder But first so everybody's on the same Page what is bitcoin's value prop today In 2023 Pete Rizzo why Bitcoin like for Those who are on the fence about Bitcoin's value prop position today What's the bull case for Bitcoin today Well the bull case for Bitcoin is it's Global money uh so you know for people Who've been building the space obviously From my perspective as a Bitcoin story And why I find this so fascinating is if You really kind of roll back the tape uh You'll find that you know the tale of Humanity and money is uh is a rather Short one so essentially you know human

Beings needed a way to transact and Trade we discovered gold you know that Started and seemed to work out okay we Introduced governments and government Monies and then boom kind of in 2009 we Discovered Bitcoin right so monetary History is pretty short there haven't Been a tremendous amount of Innovations In this area you know you think about Telecommunications where we went from The telegraph to the telephone or the Computer to the iPhone you know money's Been the comparably Backwater science You know I'll I'll just say it out out Loud right there you've needed a Government to innovate in the field of Money and and Bitcoin really broke that Paradigm right so what we're seeing now Is that uh value can move at the speed Of information right so so you know if You look at the kind of Arc of History The movement of information you know Really crucial developments and now we Have the movements of money so the genie Is out of the bottle there can't put it Back and really that's what I see as the Great drama of Bitcoin is essentially You know Humanity has kind of stumbled On this new way to do something can Argue that maybe not really new we've Had internet communications for a while But that's migrated over to you know This domain of interaction that's Primarily been you know the most

Political thing that exists within Society is money in politics and Bitcoin Exists right at the fissure point of Both of those things and because of That's incredibly disruptive it's Incredibly confusing Um you know and I take the like 10 000 Foot view that you know this is just Humanity figuring this out right we're At the early stages of that story I Think we've seen some of the formative History but you know the tale being told And there's a lot to learn So with the value prop you know how People can store their money today or Save value today it's you know mainly The US dollar or other investment Opportunities now the US dollar Weakening over time people are losing Faith in the US dollar Um countries and individuals and you Know Bitcoin as a store value money Decentralized permissionless censorship Resistance Bitcoin is the the only Alternative would you say Well I mean look there's always Different ways to do things I like to Say that you know Bitcoin is an economy Um and it's a growing economy right so I Think one of the things that is a flash Point in the Bitcoin Community today is That we're seeing that Bitcoin is now You know capable of doing maybe even More things than just money right so we

Have this idea that Bitcoin can be an Expansive technology and it can uh Potentially as a Computing Network and a Technology you know do the kind of Things that other economic systems do Right so we have this interesting Tension between you know Bitcoin is a Justice store of value or Bitcoin can it Really become something else where it is An economy right and you think about an Economy you know people like to compare The US dollar versus Bitcoin but I think A lot of bitcoiners are a bit Disingenuous when they do that I mean Look The average Bitcoin was going out there On podcasts uh you know they've got US Dollar denominated home loans they've Got US dollar denominated car payments That they're making uh they're Transacting kind of daily in US Dollars When they go get coffee uh so I think We're very far away from from this point Where Bitcoin you know we call this I Think in the Bitcoin sphere hyper Bitcoinization right where Bitcoin is This transactional economy right where It is this system of finance that you Know envelops most of your life right Now people are buying storing value in Bitcoin we've seen that's incredibly Powerful obviously like hey look if you Haven't bought Bitcoin over the last 10 Years you have been financially

Penalized you've watched as people who Are participants in that economy have uh Grown in their wealth and purchasing Power like far beyond what you have and This was a painful lesson for myself Right so I was a journalist early in the Space I was the editor of wine desk I Abstained I didn't I didn't buy or sell Any of the crypto coins you know and not Bitcoin either and uh you know I was Financially penalized right I watched as This economy grew and as a Non-participant in that economy I didn't You know I didn't gain right so Bitcoin I think we have to look at it as a System that's bigger than just the store Of value personally that's how I look at It and I think the recent developments In Bitcoin you know we're starting to See kind of some of the crypto folks Migrate over we've seen nfts migrate Over we're seeing tokens migrate over Um and look I think this is just the Start I think the mental models are Being shaken up it's a bear Market you Know this is when the narratives really Kind of dissolve we need to figure out Ways to move the whole ecosystem forward And one of the things that I continually Kind of focus on this idea is Bitcoin as An economy what is your level of Participation in Bitcoin in the Bitcoin Economy right if you're buying and Stacking stats great but is that the

Most you can do is it the most that we Have to do to advance pick one I would argue not I mean I don't know it Seems hard for me to figure out how Bitcoins gonna last long term if we're Just all buying and hodling and then Spending anything on things in US Dollars that seems like a brief period In the tale of hyper bitcoinization if You're gonna zoom out Totally totally before we get too much Into this I want people to get a better Understanding of who you are so I know You're the editor at large at Bitcoin Magazine you're here today representing Bitcoin Miami Conference also the editor Larger Kraken exchange or your Pete Rizzo and feel free to brag a little bit Tell us your story Oh I'm not a big bragger it's a it's a It's not not a great sale but yeah I've Been in the Bitcoin and uh Cryptocurrency space now for 10 years I Was kind of one of the original Journalists in the space I was editor at Coindesk uh for six or seven years Carrying a lot of the formative debates You know kind of found myself at an Existential crisis that's been kind of a Lot of this time kind of like partaking In this industry but not really getting Into the substantive Weeds about like What it was about right I think for a Long time and one of the things that I

Really focus on now is that I find that You can be exposed to bitcoin and Cryptocurrency for a long period of time Without feeling any sort of like Immediate need to it right I was pretty Dismissive of Bitcoin if I'm going to be Honest right I didn't get it I didn't Understand it Um and it really was my kind of me sort Of waking up to like you know look if You're a journalist you're covering the News you can kind of break a story but This is about a company right you're not Really asking questions about how Bitcoin Works how blockchains work what People are saying cryptocurrencies work I think I was really just Disenfranchised by the Ico boom right There was this whole kind of in 2017 era Where people were just you know printing Tokens raising crazy sums promising the Sky and you know there was a point where I was like okay do I support this like Is this an industry that I can dedicate Like my human time and attention to and You know I really had a big falling out I'd be honest like we're you know 18 19 And there are periods of time where I You know I probably could have just left The industry right like just being Totally disenfranchised didn't know what Was what and I imagine a lot of people Might be feeling the same way in the Bear Market you know you kind of got in

Things felt good things fell apart um You know so what do you do with it I Think for me you know how I tried to Kind of move forward was uh I went back To the beginning I was like okay well I Saw a lot of the history I was there I can't really explain a lot Of these things so maybe I can try to Piece it together right so I really went Back into the archives and really a lot Of my work now is focused on okay what Do we know about stochi Nakamoto what do We know about Bitcoin how did it develop Uh over time what were the decisions That were made about it and then making Those stories accessible to people Because ultimately I feel like if Bitcoin is going to be this big step Change in humanity of people in 100 Years are going to be transacting in Bitcoin and then those people are gonna Need to understand what happened in some Way like if you imagine like you're 100 Years from now you lived through hyper Bitcoinization Nations Rose and fall like companies Came and went you know people now like Great early adopters of Bitcoin could be Among the wealthiest people whatever the World you could have this you know kind Of huge shake-up in Paradigm and I find Myself wondering a lot like okay what Would it be like to live in that world And like what would I want to know let's

Just say like you know my forefathers Didn't stack Bitcoin and I lived in a Society that was sort of like reshaped And then hyper bitcoinization right so If we extrapolated right this is what People are saying I mean I'm not making This up like you read Twitter every day Right this is what people really believe That will happen right so if that Happens you know what would your life be Like and and what answers would you want Right what would you want to understand About what happened Um so I don't know I think a lot about Those people and I feel like a lot of Responsibility supports them I think That we need to work to make Bitcoin uh And cryptocurrency like the history of The industry like more accessible Because it is very unfriendly it's it is Very possible to spend a ton of time in The industry and then just consume Complete drivable just like absolutely Nothing of importance Um and I did that for a long time so I'm Sympathetic to it right I understand it And I think you know that's one of the Things why I am critical of the Cryptocurrency community is like I was Also participant of it right I was Someone who was agnostic two things and Not only that but I was like moralistic About my own agnosticism I thought being Agnostic made me somehow you know better

Ever than everybody else that you know I Was oh I don't care about the coins I Don't have any any skin in the game and I think You know why I still participate in the Journalistic forums is I have to say you Know look like this is happening like This is really you have to have some Perspective on it right Bitcoin exists It's not going away cryptocurrencies Exist they're not going away you have to You have to have some stance on these Things Beyond just feeling nothing about Them or being agnostic like that's not Okay like you can't claim that Agnosticism is somehow moral like a lot Of the journalists they do this they're Right like they're like oh I don't Understand Bitcoin and I don't care uh Okay great that's you can make that Choice Um but I think there's something like Kind of hollow about that you you should Have a fundamental if you are a Participant in the Bitcoin or Cryptocurrency industry like you should Have some fundamental thing that you Believe about how things are being Pushed forward so I think my journey was Basically that right I mean Um someone who tried has asked questions Tried to kind of be open about those Questions and then I don't know just be open to the idea

That we don't have all the answers uh About what's happening in Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency uh and to be And sanely skeptical about those things That are going on so I like it Bitcoin Miami Conference is this week for Conversations like this and a lot more People can attend Bitcoin Miami Conference they can still get their Tickets 10 off with the code down below My question to you Pete is I'm on the Fence about going to bitcoin Miami why Should I go what do you like about it I Think I think it's a bear Market Conference I think it's going to be a Fun time I think great things happen When people who are passionate about Bitcoin get together and look I I'm just Going to put it out there I don't think It's a year where people are going to Agree but you know look if they've Learned anything from the cryptocurrency Market Cycles you know I get it it's hard we just went through A bull market we were gonna make it Everything was going to the Moon it was All happening it was all there and it Just you know it just flipped slipped Away and it's you know is that the real Reality of what happens like no that's Not really what happened what really Happened was that you know Bitcoin is a Long Decades-long journey into becoming like

A useful technology and we are Understanding more about it we have to Be open to understanding more about it You if you're somebody who has been Skeptical of Bitcoin and you're looking At the new things that are going on Bitcoin and you're interested in that Like coming to Miami talk to people who Are there have conversations Um you know it is a oh yeah look many of The Bitcoin Maximus We're in the crypto Community before This isn't a big secret a lot of us you Know we were there we used to think that All these things were great we you know We we bought the rainbows and the Unicorns uh and then you know we changed Our minds because we are rational people Who can be reasoned with I think that we Should believe everybody is a rational Person who can be reasoned with uh so Yeah come to bitcoin Miami it'll be fun There's gonna be Stars you know Robert F Kennedy Jr is going to be there making His political debut I mean there's a Political candidate is launching his Political campaign at the Bitcoin Conference can't make that up uh Tulsi Gabbard uh you can go down the list of The big names Um trying to think Adam back I mean it's Gonna be a who's who right so I think um You know uh be interested in what's Going on uh you know be involved come to

Miami and uh you know we are going to Come out of this uh it's confusing time Bear markets are confusing our mental Models are breaking down Uh but we'll get there Um and you know hopefully it'll Hopefully that starts in Miami so you Know see you there We all gonna make it well I don't know About that but My final couple of questions for you Pete and links to Pete's stuff down Below go follow him my final couple of Questions is I guess to start off do you Subscribe to the theory that Bitcoin is So revolutionary and it's value capture Dynamics are so strong that Bitcoin will Be worth a lot more in the future than It is today Well I mean I think look if you accept That the that Bitcoin is ultimately Going to become competitive as a Financial system against other world Economies then you have to be bullish Long term right so again uh you have to Go back to the Arc of history and where Things are going right if if Bitcoin is A first it is an invention it's Something wholly new like on the on the Financial scene and that like nothing Like it has existed before uh so you Know we live in a world today where Monetary policy and the governance of Money is highly nationalized like you

Every country you go to has a different Paper currency they all have different Exchange rates and our money is very Politicized we saw this in Canada and They'll take away your money if you say Something you don't like uh this is Happening in other repressive regimes And China Alex gladstein's is great you Know in terms of talking about this that Is the reality of the world that we live In today Um Bitcoin represents a seismic break Away from that you know so if Bitcoin is Going to ultimately be the new system be The next system be the new or even a big Share of it you know you're talking About Walmart and Amazon on a scale of Geopolitics right you're talking about a Future where you know maybe Bitcoin you Know uh is the side like is you know Most Uh Financial transactions in the world Are denominated in Bitcoin as opposed to The you know remaining US dollar system Which is which is like Walmart or Something like that right you know Walmart Amazon anyway so uh yeah I mean I think that Bitcoin Um you know but again like that whole Dynamic of the financial opportunity you Know Um uh is a bit skewed right like I think You know they say come for the game stay For the revolution right I think if you

Think that future is interesting if you Think participating in that economy is Interesting then yes I think that you Know Bitcoin is a great place to put Your time and energy uh into solving Some of these problems because Um you know if you're unhappy with that Current state of things Bitcoin is Really I think the only option right and Then Um uh you know it's the thing that we Need to take forward and that you know Its existence might not be guaranteed so I think that's why we need all the Participants that we can get in order to Get to that future but uh yeah you know To the Moon right You gave me a very thoughtful nuanced Answer I'm gonna distill that to yes you Know you do bitcoin's gonna be worth More in the future and so my follow-up Question is you know some people say you Need 6.15 Bitcoin some people say just Get to one some people say a fraction of Bitcoin is the threshold my question to You is how many Bitcoin do you think the Average person can comfortably Accumulate to be considered a top one Percent Bitcoin holder in the future Well there's a lot of points to that Question Um how many Bitcoin can you accumulate Look if you get one Bitcoin I think You're doing good um but again I think

I just want to fight back on this idea Of like this like passive like hodling Mentality that a lot of people fall into This is like a weird 2021 people thing I Don't know like why this happened like Like yes you can sit there and then Slowly stack Bitcoin over time but then Like what's your game plan like this we Have to build the system so that it Works and that Uh like we have a weird Financial Privilege today like you can save in Bitcoin and go out and spend a more Inferior currency is like the US dollar Or whatever Financial system you're in Um but that's not going to be the case In the future of like Bitcoin is Successful like people won't have that Opportunity so it's like okay should I Tell you to take advantage of it there Are people who who will say that right They'll say just stack stats and like You know wait for things to happen but I Would say that you know if you're doing That you should also realize there are Some limitations with what you're doing Like you also can help Propel Bitcoin Forward there is a there isn't I think there's this idea that people Have that like they can't influence Bitcoin like they can't do anything to Make Bitcoin better and that's Absolutely not true that's like not true At all no you can go out and found a

Company you can like make a startup you Can build a protocol maybe that's on top Of Bitcoin as you know the word Health Protocol approved there's any number of Things that you can do to increase the Utility of Bitcoin in the world uh and You should do those things if you really Believe in Bitcoin and want to make Bitcoin value because again this idea I Think we've created this culture and This is the thing another part of the Bitcoin maximum culture that I think Really needs to go away is that we've Really created a very passive culture We've created people who really think You know they can just sit and hold Bitcoin until the world collapses well They answer the question that I always Ask is like well what the hell are you Going to do okay so like the the whole Let's just the mat let's just game this Out like the whole financial system like Crashes tomorrow and like nobody's using The US dollar anymore do you think that They're going to use Bitcoin why why Would they use Bitcoin like they don't Understand anything about it why would They why would that be their immediate Reaction so I think that are we ready to Onboard those people right like this is The thing right the congestion with Ordinals is a great example where You know we've been building Bitcoin in A way to prepare for this it's been the

Assumption of the people who are Developing Bitcoin working on the core Protocol that it would be financially uh You know expensive for you to transact On the base layer of Bitcoin and that Would be a fundamentally you know Difficult thing in the future well now We're here and it's how prepared are we Do we have lightning wallets that work Do we have exchanges that are Integrating lightning and the answer is Not really and it's actually really hard You know we haven't got to that point The exchanges I think are waking up now And they're starting to integrate Lightning and that's great and you know Some of these things you know It's like how prepared can you be so Again I just want to fight against this Like passive this passive people like I Don't know I have uh my brother is one Of these like 21 passive guys you know Which is like wait for the world to Collapse and it's you know everything Will be okay and I just I have a lot of Problems with that I just don't know why You would Have that Viewpoint again it's Comfortable it's a comfortable Viewpoint It's like okay I'll just stack some Bitcoin and then the world will go away And then I'll be rich but you know okay Great I don't know that's not how the World's gonna work I I highly doubt that

This was gonna happen and even if it did Happen I just think that would be a Shitty it's like really shitty really Experience for everybody like why would You want that I appreciate that answer truly but if I Had to pin you down on a number for the Threshold to be one percent I don't know 0.69 I don't know just pick I pick a number out of that you know I Love it Pete Rizzo thank you very much For coming on today guys follow Pete Rizzo down below see you hang out with Both of us at Bitcoin Miami Conference This week Pete I'll give you you can either do final Thoughts for the altcoin daily audience Or top three alt coins in the space if You want to answer for real but you Don't have to final thoughts uh top Three all coins will be Bitcoin uh Bitcoin and Bitcoin Something to say Ah no it was a trick question Um yeah I mean thoughts the Alcorn daily Audience I mean look Um be like be interested in what's going On and just be skeptical of things like I kind of get where you're here for like You're you're kind of here to like kind Of you know figure out how you can kind Of find the next thing and flip it Around and do the Pepe thing like look I Get it okay but

Um I don't know I just feel like the Financial Degen mindset is also like Pretty problematic you're participating In a system where like you are gaining At someone else's expense so you know if You bought one of these like Shiba Inus Or dogecoins it's like you're just Trying to flip them around for your own Personal benefit I think the great thing about Bitcoin And the Bitcoin community in contrast to Some of the other stuff in crypto like We have to solve the financial problems That exist in the world it's like we Have to go out and build solutions to Those things so like you know pick up a Shovel and like get involved like it's Not really fun like you know it's the Intellectual problems are pretty hard Like We're figuring it out like it's better Right we know more about Bitcoin and Other cryptocurrencies than we did Before uh but yeah I mean look I think Um And Just do me a favor and ask like you know If you've invest in some random thing Like read the website read the white Paper like look look at the stuff and Like ask questions about like see if it Really makes sense you know and then um You know build your build your ability To do that and then maybe you'll find

That over time you understand Bitcoin a Little bit better so you know and I Welcome I look forward to welcoming you To that conversation when you're when You're ready so Awesome I appreciate that Pete guys go Follow Pete Pete thanks so much for Coming on today thanks for having me