FTC Chair Lina Khan on tackling big tech’s ‘mob bosses’ | StrictlyVC DC

Hello again um and now I'm very excited To be sitting down with FTC chair Lena Khan um a little background if it's Helpful um Lena was sworn into her go on Lena thank You thank you Again so much such a such a privilege to Have you here um Alena was warning her Position as chair of the FTC in June of 2021 making her the youngest person ever To hold the job before heading to the FTC she was an associate professor of Law at Columbia Law School she also Served as Council to the US House Judiciary committee's subcommittee on Antitrust commercial and administrative Law was legal adviser to FTC Commissioner Rohit Chopra and was legal Director at the open markets Institute Um before we get started I wanted to let You all know that um chairman Khan has Very nicely offered to answer some Questions she really like would prefer To engage with uh the audience and I Know there's some reporters here as well I don't know if you're up there or down Here um but also investors Founders so Just know that there's going to be a Little time I don't know how long we can Keep her not not endlessly but for a few Questions so again so great to great to Meet you um so over the last two decades Obviously Washington has been sort of Uh I maybe hijacked overstating it but

By big Tech Microsoft Google um Companies that maybe don't have um the Same interest in mind as startups and I Know that you want to talk a little bit A little bit about rectifying that I Thought we could start with um your your As it relates to it to Tech and I Realize the FTC is covering so many Different things it's sort of Mind-boggling um but uh AI is obviously Very top of mind for you and I was Hoping that maybe we could start with The um Wall Street Journal report that Federal Regulators are moving forward With an investigation of Microsoft and Open Ai and Nvidia if there's anything You can sort of say about what your Plans are there well first of all it's So great to be here and and get to sit Down with all of you um and I think You're right that there is a lot of Interest across DC in making sure that We are able to harness the opportunity And potential that these tools present Uh while also making sure that these Markets stay open and fair and Competitive rather than allowing certain Types of bottlenecks or choke points to Emerge in ways that could undermine that Competition and that opportunity and That Innovation and so that's really the Prism that we're looking at all of this Through um we're really looking across The stack so from the chips to the cloud

To the models to the downstream apps to Try to understand what's going on in Each of these layers uh we've been very Active in hearing from Founders and Startups and really want to hear from Folks on the ground about what do they Say what do they see as both the Opportunities but but also the potential Risks um I was out in Silicon Valley a Few months ago and it was really Interesting to hear from those Founders Um and in particular about how right now There is a whole lot of opacity around Who's getting access to some of these Key inputs be it the compute be it the Models on what terms uh if you're using Some of these models is there any Guarantee that you're not effectively Feeding back proprietary information and So I think a lot of excitement but we Are also hearing some weariness that can Emerge when you realize there's a lot of Power already concentrated and that Power being concentrated could foreclose Innovation and and competition and so That's what we're keeping in mind uh the FTC also enforces the nation's consumer Protection laws and so we're also Looking at this through the prism of Privacy and data security and fraud and And those sorts of issues you know we Have a Consumer complaint database and We're already seeing for example the Number take up on issues like voice

Cloning fraud and so trying to get a Handle on you know how do we stay ahead Of some of that so there's so much Opacity as you said and it also seems Like some of the people that you are Trying to regulate are getting more Creative about the deals that they're Striking so another Journal report said That you are looking into Microsoft's um Acquisition of well maybe not Acquisition but its deal with with Inflection AI which some of you may know Or may not is a an AI software company And Microsoft in March hired the Co-founder basically brought aboard all Of the employees and I was now paying it Uh the company a $650 million licensing Fee to resell its technology so it's not Technically a merger and so I wonder in Part if they talk to your agency or Other Regulators about what they were Doing because I know when it comes to an Actual merger there is sort of a Threshold over which they have to talk To you so you can kick the tires that's Something like $120 million so did they Talk to you about this deal or was that What did you read about in the journal So I'm limited in what I can say about Some of these uh specific deals or Specific potential matters I will say as A general matter you're absolutely right That we are interested in being vigilant To make sure that we're not seeing

Evasion of the existing laws and we've Been really clear that all of the Existing laws still apply right the laws Prohibiting uh mergers that may Substantially lessen competition the Laws that ban price fixing and collusion And so whether you're doing that price Fixing through algorithm or through a Handshake it's both still illegal and so Across the board we're trying to Scrutinize and make sure we're not Seeing some of these um Innovations in Potential lawbreaking we want to make Sure that everybody's playing by the Same rules and that we are enforcing Those rules I will say um you know Earlier this year we also launched an Inquiry into some of these strategic Partnerships and Investments to make Sure we were understanding what was Really going on here we'd heard some Concerns about for example um whether Some of these Partnerships and Investments could be resulting in Privileged access for some to certain Types of inputs uh disfavored or Exclusionary access for others um you Know whether these Partnerships are Coming with a certain level of control Uh to be able to directly shape the Trajectory of some of these business Decisions including competitive business Decisions and so we wanted just to make Sure we were getting a handle of some of

That and so that work is still ongoing As well I was going to say trying to Disentangle that stuff has has to be so Daunting because it really seems like It's changing by the day I mean um Friendships are forming and falling Apart um very quickly I did want to ask Uh because Apple had many announcements Yesterday it's integrating with open AI Uh it said it is open to working with Other third parties is uh and embedding Its products with open AI but also Potentially Google Gemini um but it does Seem like a lot of the Partnerships are Among the same you know players that are Probably a little bit concerning to you Right now and I wondered what you Thought of what you saw come out of that Event just to step back I think it is a Really interesting moment because Historically we've seen that some of the Most significant breakthrough Innovations have historically come from The startups and the entrepreneurs and The small guys who you know are able to Just see things differently see an Opening in the marketplace and really Disrupt in ways that disintermediate the Big guys or really provides important Competitive checks on them it's true That right now what we could be saying Is that some of the existing incumbents May be controlling access to the inputs And the raw material that's needed for

Some of these Innovations and so we need To be vigilant to make sure that that Moment of competition and innovation and Disruption is not going to be co-opted By the existing incumbents in ways that Will close off the market and prevent us From really enjoying the Innovations and Competition that have historically kept Our country ahead right if you look at The last century um it's really been Important interventions to keep the Market open be it all the way back with The AT&T consent decree where the Justice department required that AT&T Open up its patent Vault that ended up You know feeding huge amounts of Innovation uh to the big Microsoft Lawsuit which ended up you know Preventing Microsoft ultimately from Picking winners and losers in the Internet age and allowed you know the Googles of the world to really emerge And Thrive and so similarly we want to Make sure that the arteries of Commerce Are open that the pathways of Commerce Are open and if you have a good idea if You're able to commercialize it if they Interest in the marketplace that you Have a fair shot at competing and your Fate is tied to the strength of your Idea and your business Talent rather Than whether you're threatening one of The big guys who could stomp you out Well uh I was just talking to uh Luther

Who's going to be joining me on stage in A little bit and he was we were saying That uh yesterday on the heels of that Announcement a lot of people were kind Of there were memes coming out about all The startups that are going to be put Out of business by what Apple introduced Um grammarly otter a Google U team that Has a transcription service um I mean Hopefully not but it seems like a danger You mentioned um the AT&T uh uh action I guess of maybe 40 Years ago uh and you know I've seen you Talk a little bit about not buying this Argument that um these companies have to Be protected because if they're slowed Down in any way it sort of weakens us as A country there are compan you know Countries where they're not slowing down Their AI I wondered if you could talk a Little bit about that because I think on The one hand there's probably plenty of People who um you know agree with you And of course they want to see things Broken up so that startups can breathe I Think there's other people that are you Know truly worried about that Possibility and might say well this is Nothing like you know you know breaking Up the bells these are companies that or This is technology that fuels Auto Autonomous weapons and you know moves so Much faster than anything we've ever Seen before so how do you kind of I

Guess how do you kind of lay out the Case for breaking things up but also not Putting the country at any risk which The companies say that you'll do it's Interesting because even you know 40 50 Years ago as the justice department was Investigating AT&T it was the defense department that Stepped in and said hey we really need To tread carefully here because taking Antitrust action against AT&T would pose A national security risk and so even Back then we were hearing a lot of these Analogous arguments You know there are some natural Experiments I mean I think at various Moments we faced a choice as to whether We should in fact protect in codar Monopolies or instead whether we should Protect the laws of Fair competition and Time and time again we chose the path of Competition and that is what ended up Fueling and catalyzing so many of these Breakthrough Innovations and so much of The remarkable growth that our country Has enjoyed and has allowed us to stay Ahead globally if if you look at some Other countries that instead chose that National champions model The Lex protect And codal our monopolies model they're The ones who got left behind and so I Think we need to keep those lessons of Of history in mind as we again choose a Path um you know another uh another

Merger that was um you know justified in Part on some of these National Champion Arguments was the merger of of Boeing And McDonald Douglas um in the late 1990s and you know I think we can all See how um some of those Dynamics have Been folded and so I think we just need To be very wary of these National Champion arguments and really have faith In open Fair contestable competitive Markets as being what's going to be the Driver of innovation and our you know National lead and uh globally so there Are startups here and there are VCS who Have mixed feelings about you as you Know Because um they they want their Companies to thrive but they're also Worried that you've been so vocal about Having your you know eye on these Companies that they're not doing Anything um and so they don't have you Know exits are obviously a huge path uh A big uh exit path for VCS and for Founders so how do you make them Comfortable that you're doing really What's best for them in the short and Long Term so when we enforce the antitrust Laws we really look at what do these Laws say um The Clayton Act says we have To prevent mergers that may Substantially lessen competition or tend To create a monopoly and so that's the

Standard we apply um and we certainly You know understand that for some Startups and Founders you know Acquisition is a key exit path that They're interested in really what the Law prohibits is an exit or an Acquisition that's going to fortify a Monopoly or allow a dominant firm to Take out a nent threat and a competitive Threat and I think you know our agency Has some lawsuits underway the justice Department has some lawsuits underway That are really looking back and Recognizing that some of the Acquisitions that were done over the Last couple of decades really did allow Some of those incumbents to take out Nent competitive threats to really Fortify their Monopoly and so it's Important to learn from that um just to Step back you know in any given year we See somewhere up to 3,000 merger filings That get reported to us around 2% of Those actually get a second look by the Government and so you have 98% of all Deals that for the most part are are Going through um I'll also say that you Know if you are a a startup or a Founder That is eager for an acquisition as an Exit a world in which you have five or Six or seven or eight potential suitors I would think is a better world in which You just have one or two Right and so actually promoting more

Competition at that level to ensure that Startups have you know more of a fair Chance of getting you know better Valuation more control over some of the Deal terms um I think would be Beneficial as well just curious because Again I see you in the headlines all the Time and I'm so amazed how many how many Cases is your team juggling concurrently And there's 1500 people at the FTC Around 1300 okay which is actually 400 People smaller than they were in the 1980s even though the economy has grown You know 15 times over so so 1300 people A budget of $400 million a year and how Many cases I mean it depends on how you Count um but you know dozens of cases on The antitrust side um you know close to A 100 cases sometimes on the consumer Protection side so it's a pretty sizable Portfolio uh we have a really fantastic Team and you know we're a small agency But defin only punch above our weight Well I think what's amazing about you is I don't know if you're if you're taking More actions than your predecessors or If you're just more visible about it Which has the same effect because you're Talking about it so much you've put People on notice do you know if you're Moving at a faster Pace than your Predecessors in the role yeah I mean you Can look at the numbers and you know There are some um upticks there but to

My mind I think cter the number of Lawsuits or the number of Investigations Is only one way to try to capture impact Uh you know to my mind the types of Cases you're bringing is important and One thing that's been important for me Is to make sure that we're actually Looking at where do we see the biggest Harm where do we see players that we Think are more you know systematically Driving some of these problems and Illegal behaviors and so in the same way That being able to go after the mob boss Is going to be more effective than going Some of the you know the the henchmen at The bottom I think you want to be Effective in your enforcement strategy And so that's why we have been looking Upstream um and you know taking on Lawsuits that can you know really go up Against some of the big guys but we Think if we're successful have a really Beneficial effect in the marketplace and When it comes to deterrence I think We're already seeing some of that right I mean we hear routinely from senior Dealmakers senior antitrust lawyers who Will say pretty openly that as of five Or six or seven years ago when you were Thinking about a potential deal Antitrust risk or even the antitrust Analysis was nowhere near the top of the Conversation and and now it is up front And center and so for an enforcer if

You're having companies think about that Legal issue on the front end that's a Really good thing because then we're not Going to have to spend as many public Resources taking on deals that we Believe are violating the laws yeah well I think it's a it's a great strategy but It does seem twofold so you're going After the right the big targets and You're doing a great job of just Explaining what your strategy is to Everybody at every opportunity I did Want to ask is your to scale your Relatively small office which with a Relatively constrained budget are you Using AI uh so I'm sure we've all seen the Cautionary tales of uh like lawyers you Know using some of these AI tools to Write their complaints and then getting Chided in court so uh you know I think We are thinking about are their ways Especially with some of our economic Analysis uh to be benefiting some of These tools obviously being able to do That requires pretty significant kind of Compute upgrades uh which we're you know Asking Congress for more funding to be Able to do we do have a really fantastic Team of technologists on board uh which Was a big priority for me to make sure That we have the right talent and skill Set on board to make sure just at a Basic level we understand how this stuff

Works and so we've been really thrilled To be able to hire very very talented Set of people and it was interesting When we were going about this um you Know we talked to peer agencies across The world that had started to build up Technology shops and one thing we heard Was that it can be really difficult to Recruit right I mean we can't really Compete with private sector salaries and So that could be a real challenge we Were really struck that within a couple Of weeks or having some of these Postings out we got somewhere to the Order of 6 to 700 applications for Technologists who want to come work at The FTC and so it's been um you know Phenomenally successful to be able to Build up this team you know data Scientists data Engineers AI experts People who can really embed with our Lawyers and our economists as we're Doing the investigations uh we've Already had lawsuits that allege certain Types of practices that we were only Able to understand because of our Technologists who were a able to Identify hey here's how the algorithm is Really working or here is how this fa Recognition technology is or isn't Working and so uh we've seen huge Payoffs already those technologists also Work closely with our teams as we think About crafting remedies um to make sure

That again we're really crafting these Things in a way that will be effective And and make an impact in the market That's great so very Mission driven um I Did want to ask About Um your uh I guess some of the the Numbers um and and whether you're happy With them unhappy or how you feel about Them so the number of of deals has has Dropped dramatically while you have been In charge but it's not just because of Regulatory scrutiny it's high inflation It's like valuation gaps but um the Number of of deals dropped I think Between 2022 and 2021 by half and so I Just wondered if you have any thoughts About the ftc's impact there and and how You feel about that dramatic uh Disparity yeah I mean as an agency we're A law enforcer and so we're agnostic as To just volume of deal making our only Concern is just preventing and Prohibiting illegal deals uh which is a Subset of what we see but beyond that It's not for us to say you know deal Making good or deal making bad it's it's Really just to say don't pursue illegal Mergers and and those are the ones we Stop right um well I did wonder so um You know the standard that you sort of Operated on not you specifically the FTC Was um what is it called the consumer Welfare standard and that that's sort of

Judged a monopoly by Price standards to To some extent so if companies were Charging customers too much that was Sort of an obvious red flag for you You've had to come up with different Proxies given that the companies that You're targeting or giving away their Very good products for free in exchange For data I wonder do those proxies have To remain somewhat constant or can they Be um can they change over time how are You sort of rethinking how you go after A you know Monopoly so we're really Focused on what do the laws say that Congress wrote and the laws are very Focused on protecting competition and Protecting Fair competition what the Dimensions of competition are can change Right you definitely might have markets Where there's rivalry on price and so Firms are jostling to see how much they Can lower price but there are all sorts Of markets in which competition is Happening on different dimensions right Including things like Innovation um in One of our cases we were also able to uh You know argue to the court successfully That degradations in privacy for example Can be a harm to Consumers even if the Price if the cost is Zer doar and so Really thinking about privacy is an Important dimension of quality and Something that users care about and so That was a really important programmatic

Advance and and how we think about you Know updating our approach to law Enforcement in a way that maps on to the 21st century and how business businesses Are really functioning and operating and Competing and so across the board we're Always wanting to narrow the gap between You know how antitrust people are Thinking about markets and what's really Happening in the market um I got my Start in all of this actually as a Business journalist um just talking to People talking to businesses talking to Founders and at that point had seen that There was a gap between how business People were seeing and experiencing Competition and how you know sometimes Antitrust doct and and lawyers and Economists were understanding the Markets and so a big Focus for me has Been to close that Gap and that's why We're regularly opening our doors to Hear from people across the board we do Regular open commission meetings um We've been traveling around the country Meeting with everybody from pharmacists To Farmers to Tech startups uh really Wanting to make sure we're directly Hearing from people in the trenches People trying to run a business um to Understand what are they seeing what are The challenges to open Fair compet I That they're seeing um jman KH I also Just wanted to ask you a little bit

About something that's maybe like lwh Hanging fruit but what the FTC stance is On Section 230 because I you know Steve Case was just on stage hey Steve and I've talked to Steve about this in the Past he was in part um you know he was There at the beginning of the internet Uh this language was was uh you know Sort of written in part to help you know AOL and its its peers at the time um to Keep them from being sued into Oblivion Over misinformation that would appear on Their platforms but here we are 30 years Later um we can't get rid of this thing These companies are spending hundreds of Millions of dollars to keep it in place And it just feels like if that could be Unwound or done away with it would be Very helpful but I don't know if that's You Know far too simplistic what are your Thoughts I mean ultimately that's a Decision for Congress to to make um I Think there's no question that the law Was passed in a very different era Trying to solve for a very different set Of problems than what we see now and Certainly in the ftc's cases especially On the consumer protection side we have Seen this section 230 creep where even When we're going after bread and butter Fraud bread and butter deception and We're looking Upstream at the actors That are enabling or facilitating some

Of the lawbreaking um you know we Definitely hear section 230 defenses I Think one really interesting question For me is how do we make sure that our Approach to the liability regime here is Mapping on to the business model and the Business incentives and so especially if You have companies who are you know Being driven by volume and being able to Report things like monthly active users And those being the types of metrics That are viewed as PR proxy for their Success what does that mean for their Incentives to either police their Platforms or turn a blind die to their Platforms right in terms of things like Fake accounts and some of the fraud and And spam that we see and so I think Wanting to make sure that we don't see a Mismatch between um you know what the Platform's incentives are from a Business perspective and what's actually Good for the users and customers is Going to be really important and and Getting section 230 right as a regime There is a big part of that yeah let's Hope um I don't know if we've got the uh Microphones out in the oh wow lots of Lots of people Um let's seea can you Uh maybe run it over to thank you sure Yeah is it on uh hi my name is Emma Bates I'm a founder and CEO here in the Arlington area um Your Role at the FTC

Has a lot to do with mergers and Percentages of markets but um I remember You as the person who wrote the famous Antitrust Paradox paper and I'm Wondering um what have you learned since Taking this role in this new from this New vantage point about the way that a Platform kind of scrambles up the who is The product and who is the customer Especially in terms of the asymmetric Knowledge about what the value of data Is um what has been interesting to you In the last few years seeing you know as Time has gone by and the market has Changed but also from your new role Thank you yeah it's an interesting Question and I will say generally I Think we've all seen a lot and learned a Lot um over the last decade especially As see we see some of the life cycle of These platforms right in terms of the Business strategies and practices that They undertake in the early years when They're really trying to gain scale and Be able to spin up the flywheel and then The ways in that digital markets markets Can tip right you have certain types of Entry barriers the network effects the Self-reinforcing advantages of data um That can then lead a firm's incentives To change what they feel they have a Dominant position and are able to Protect that dominant position through a Moe and so I think across the board

We've seen that switch be uh flipped and You know I think this is also relevant When we think about things like openness Right I mean there's a lot of discussion Right now about um openness in the IIA Context and I think we've saw Historically open source was such a key Vector for Innovation and catalyzing a Lot of the you know freedom for Developers to Tinker and really deliver A lot of benefits but I think something That we saw in Web 2.0 was the open First closed later strategy where Openness was used in a way to bring on Developers and and get some of that Skill and then the tactic switch and so I think similarly as we're trying to Apply some of those lessons and Experiences in this context I think we Need to be you know very Vigilant as to What does openness really mean in the AI Context how do we make sure it's not Just a branding exercise but when you Actually look at the terms um it's truly Open and then how do we make sure that We're going to um you know try to get Ahead of some of those open first close Later Dynamics and ways that could Actually be very detrimental so I think There are just a lot of lessons to be Learned generally but I think especially This moment as we're thinking about some Of these AI tools uh a very ripe moment To be applying

Them couple More hey thank you for your time today I'm Brandon Andrews I'm a local Entrepreneur I also do casting for Shark Tank so I meet a lot of entrepreneurs That are interested in exiting via Acquisition so I saw your interview on Squawkbox and I thought one of the Moments was really um interesting the Host were saying they have m&a friends Who are complaining that now they have To think about um antitrust at the Beginning of a deal versus at the end of A deal and you came back and said well We have rules for a reason and as an Enforcer we want people to think about It um for these larger deals you can add On those billable hours to a deal but as We go down Market kind of where I sit Those billable hours for smaller Companies in an m&a deal add up pretty Quickly no offense to any m&a lawyers in Here um as an enforcer is that kind of Consideration something that you Consider um as you're thinking about Enforcement the additional cost or Additional burden on smaller companies Um and if it is is there a Recommendation on what you think the Best practice is for a smaller company Looking at um an exit to balance the Regulatory piece with everything else in A more resource constrained Environment it's a good question and you

Know as we're looking at these deals We're really focused on the legal Standard and trying to understand what Are the facts here how are these firms Competing are they competing is this Going to be a deal that may Substantially lessen Competition one thing that we're really Keen on figuring out is how do we have a Really robust screening mechanism on the Front end because once these reportable Deals come in we really only have 30 Days to figure out is this going to be Something we investigate or not and when These deals are reported right now a lot Of the information that's being provided Is actually not that probative in terms Of the competition analysis and so we've Proposed a change That would require companies to submit More information up front with the idea Being that that would lead to a better Screening mechanism and so we'd be able To identify much earlier what are the Deals that are problematic but also what Are the deals that don't seem Problematic and that overall be able to Reduce some of the burden that way so You know that's that's a change that We've proposed if we're able to finalize It I think it'll have a really good Impact um hi Shan I'm the CEO and Co-founder of an AI safety startup and I'm curious um I'm curious on your view

On the ftc's role in protecting Consumers by enforcing AI safety and What advice if any you'd have to AI Safety startups wanting to help in that Role so we're thinking a lot about our Consumer protection Mission here in part Because you know these are not in many Ways uh hypothetical risks we're already Seeing them in terms of how some of These AI tools are tobo charging fraud And really um you know leading people to Get scammed and defrauded already by Much more kind of sophisticated um Sophisticated scams and we're looking to Figure out how do we solve for that um One thing we've been doing is putting Out kind of regular guidance to put the Market on notice about how some of our Existing authorities are going to be Applying in this context we're also um Using more Innovative tactics so we just Did something uh that was called our Voice cloning challenge where we invited From the market and the public ideas for How can an enforcement agent like the FTC be able to detect and monitor in More realtime way whether you know a Phone call or a voice is is real or Whether it's um using voice cloning and So we just announced some of our winners There uh which we hope will also help You know spur in the marketplace um some Of these more Innovative techniques and And mechanisms to be stopping some of

This voice cloning fraud um but more Generally I think you know this is a all Hands-On deck moment in terms of some of The risks here and and how do we get out Ahead of Them um I think maybe one more question Then we've got to let the chairman Go hi my name is Jim benison I'm a local Entrepreneur and uh founder and CEO but My question goes to uh AI in the Marketplace today there's a lot of hype Out there um Gartner has got their hype Cycle report and they're all over the Fact that there's probably more hype in The AI space than in any product ever in History because it's so easy to Hype I Went to a Tech conference recently where All the vendors in the exhibit floor Pretty much had Ai and all their Marketing materials and the one company That I noticed had added AI to the name Of the company and it was a legacy Company that I've dealt with in the past And know their product so I went up and Asked them what AI did you add to to Make to the product to make you able to Do that and they said well a report Writer now uses chat GPT it's a very Technical report to dumb it down so that The board of directors and the CEO can Understand it because it's a very Technical language in the report and I Said really that sounds more like anti- Intelligence than artificial

Intelligence but regardless I just shook My head and walked away because it seems Like that's a very thin layer of AI to Add to the product to justify putting AI On the name of the company but the Question is so we know that the SEC has Fined a couple of companies now hundreds Of thousands of dollars for false Advertising for making false claims that There's AI on their product when there Really isn't it seems like the dividing Line between hype and false advertising Is Razor thin you guys are the false Advertising agency you're supposed to Police that did Congress give you $87 Million like they did the IRS to hire More investigators to go after that uh No they did not um and we actually have A whole uh AI hype workst stream right Now to try to uh Fair it out some of This because we absolutely are seeing The same thing that be it on the Customer side or even things like Business opportunities um some of these AI tools we think are being used um to To Market and and to kind of inflate uh And exaggerate the value of what may be Offered and so we want to make sure that We are policing that we've already had a Couple of um kind of AI hype uh Deceptive uh advertising cases come out And and it's an area we're continuing to Scrutinize so so um chair con I again I Thank you so much I wanted to ask one

Last question which is I noticed that Your term is ending in September but I I Imagine obviously you'll stay in place Until there's a successor chosen can you Be reappointed I don't even know is that Possible so the way that the FTC um act Works is that Commissioners can stay in Their seat until their Replacements Until and unless their Replacements are Kind of um appointed and confirmed and So um there is an opportunity to to to Stay oh that's great I guess I just was Wondering I mean what what do you hope Your legacy will Be so look our Focus has been on Enforcing the law without fear or favor And and making clear to the American Public that the FTC is out there Fighting for them uh and protecting them From illegal business practices be it For consumers be it for workers or be it For entrepreneurs and small businesses That just want to get a fair Shake in The marketplace and so that's a core Focus of that and we're going to be Continuing to that that work well I'm I'm curious to see if there's many more Sort of people in the lenon mold going Forward I think there will be it's been Really energizing watching you uh lead The the agency thank you so much for Joining us thank you so much really a Pleasure um and now Rebecca come on

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