Creating cookware that won’t poison you with Jordan Nathan

Teflon is known as a forever chemical One that releases toxic chemicals when Broken down at high heat this might seem Like a wild choice to use for coating Pots and pans but in reality most Non-stick cookware in the US is coated In this harmful chemical luckily a trend Toward non-toxic cookware is on the Rise you're listening to found Tech Crunch's podcast that brings you the Stories behind the startups and today We're talking to Jordan Nathan the Founder and CEO of carway a non-toxic Homegood brand you probably seen someone Rave about on Instagram I'm Becca scac And here to learn all the ways our pans Are currently killing us is my lovely Co-host Dominic madori Davis and as Usual before we get into our Conversation with Jordan we have our two Truths in a lie so listen carefully to See which one of these statements just Isn't true is it that Jordan started out As an aspiring cook that he's actually Gotten Teflon poisoning before or that The company was almost dead upon arrival After a product mishap ooh sounds like There's a good episode in store for you But before you listen or after we would Ask you if you wouldn't mind just rating And reviewing the show you can do so Wherever you are already listening to This podcast so it should be super quick And easy and we would really appreciate

It but now here's our conversation with Jordan hey Jordan how's it going doing Great today thanks for having me on the Podcast oh thanks for coming on the Podcast before we really dive in very Important question to start with what Was the last thing you cooked ooh great Question I did make eggs last night so Nothing too complicated nice healthy Dinner love that and listeners if you're Unfamiliar we're asking because we're Chatting with the founder of carway so Jordan why don't you start by telling us A little bit about the company yeah so Carway was founded in late 2019 we are a Non-toxic kitchen wear brand that Started off with cookware today we've Expanded across the kitchen our whole Mission is to bring non-toxic Goods to Your home that are high design easy to Use and help customers get rid of nasty Chemicals like Teflon Microplastics and a lot of traditionally Toxic materials that are found in your Kitchen wear very interesting and I'm Curious because of course I cook all the Time and a lot of people do cook and Interact with these products but like It's never really occurred to me to Think about what's in the pans or sort Of like paid that much attention to the Brand or anything like that like what Got you interested in building in the Space to begin with yeah so number of

Years ago prior to carway I actually had A kind of scary um product experience Where I left a Teflon pan on my burner One night accidentally for about 45 Minutes I turned on the flame think my Dad had called me I forgot I left the The flame on the pan and my apartment Ended up filling of a fumes and I Actually got Teflon poisoning from it And started doing more research called The Poison Control hotline and really Started to get really interested in the Category and couldn't wrap my head Around why something we're cooking off Of could be potentially so toxic and you Know felt inspired to bring an Alternative to the market yeah first of All not surprising that anything in the US is poisonous uh but a big pan Industry but how many chemicals are in Our pans cuz you brought up a good point I mean like what happens when you just Leave a pan running is does any pan just Put toxins in the air when you use it Automatically or do you have to keep it Running for a while yeah it really Depends on the material so materials Like cast iron or stainless steel Traditionally are safe to use it's Really your non-stick Coatings that are Made with Teflon that after only 2 and a Half minutes on your burner start Leeching into your food and so it Doesn't take very long to start leeching

There's over 10,000 types of pfas which Is the category that nonstick is made With and whether you scratch your pans Or you overheat them those chemicals are Making their way into your food each Time that you cook wait that's really Crazy why is that allowed to be sold Like does do a lot of people know about This I think it's becoming more and more Known there's a lot of legislation today That's looking to ban past they're known Also as forever chemicals you may have Seen that in the news headlines and it's Really an indestructible material that's In a ton of different products it's Known for its non-stick properties and Once it's made it's really hard to break Down it's in a lot of our waterways and Drinking water and because it is such a Durable material it's been built into a Lot of products over the last number of Decades and you know I think non-stick Cookware for many many decades has Leverag this material for the non-stick Properties and you know I think has has Not seen an alternative come out until Kind of recent years with ceramic which Is what carway sells and so I'm curious With it being as you mentioned something That's becoming kind of more known and More common what was it like actually Building this company sort of taking That idea okay I want to make these Types of cookware obviously without this

Chemical involved how did you go from The idea to actually building the Product like was that a difficult Process or did you find it's one of Those like this was right here why were We not doing this before really a mix of Both so ceramic the material that we use Has been around for almost a decade and I think one of the things I had noticed When starting to build the company was First off which material make sense to Bring into the market we did look at Cast iron we did look at stainless steel They're great materials but I think for An average consumer they're a little bit More daunting to use and felt like at Least from my own personal experience There was a need for products that were Easy to use in the market and when Looking at Ceramic it had existed in the Market mostly on retail shelves the Brands that talked about it and used it Focused on the eco-friendly properties And really saw this white space around How do we create a brand that can Actually educate consumers on the Non-toxic properties of ceramic and so It was really a repositioning of of the Material making sure we had the right Testing reports to back up the claims And I think where product development Got challenging was while yes we are Very focused on the materials making Sure we had the right form factors that

Were beautiful to display on your Countertop thinking through storage and Organization if you've seen our products Before all of our sets come with storage And organization pieces and so we wanted To create a really holistic solution That was not just non-toxic but also Something that was easy to use great to Look at easy to store and having four Kind of major pillars of the product and Brand and solving that in one solution You know was a a challenging process to Go through was it expensive to Source an Alternative was it necess expensive to Source but it took a lot of time there's A number of coding Partners out there That exist throughout the world for us We spent quite a bit of time on Formulating our own coding that we felt Like was the safest was the best out There a lot of time s non sticks will be Really great out of the box and then After a month or two the nonstick no Longer works and so longevity was Something we are really focused on with Any ceramic or non-stick they don't last Forever but in an effort to you know Create a sustainable business with a Really high quality products but be Products that can reduce waste it took Almost 18 months total to dial in our Coding and make sure we had not just the Safest coating on the market but also One of the best from a nonstick

Perspective but also durability and I Know that this isn't the first kitchen Wear company that you've worked on so Maybe if you want to talk about your Background prior to launching carway and I'm definitely curious why it made sense To launch carway as a separate company As opposed to say maybe building out a Line at the company you already at yeah That's right so this wasn't my first Start in the kitchen prior to carway I Worked at a company called Mohawk group They owned about five Amazon brands at The time when I worked there I ran their Kitchen division the brand was named VY Vremi we sold a lot of Kitchen products On Amazon really low price point around $10 to $15 we sold everything from Cookware knives and utensils Bak wear Small appliances and interestingly one Of the thesises of that brand that I had Built was back in 2015 on Amazon most of The products you had in the marketplace Were black or stainless steel and the One thing that we really did with that Brand that was successful was bringing Color into the category and I think one Of the learnings was color drives Retention and people want to match their Whole kitchens and so definitely a Learning I took into carway but in my Time at my prior business spent a lot of Time in factories saw a lot of bad Manufacturing processes got really

Familiar with these materials and took a Lot of those learnings you know around Materials and safety into careway that We've built today and why wouldn't it Have made sense to launch this within Your existing brand prior yeah so I Worked for a different Corporation I I Was an employee there and got to a point Where wanted to kind of give a shot at Starting my own company and branching Out and you know I think interestingly That business I worked on was very Amazon focused and I think with that we Were selling lower pric products and you Know throughout my tenure there met a Lot of great factories who were at the Higher end and you know the whole D Toc Boom was going on and I was kind of Watching that and missing out and felt Be really interesting to launch a brand With higher quality products higher Design and start with a D Toc Focus Because I already knew the the Amazon Side of the business yeah I'm thinking About the DC Focus for a second because I know obviously both consumer interest In the DC sector as well as investor Interest in the DTC sector has kind of Gone on a roller coaster over the last 10 15 years it was really in and then it Was really out and then it was kind of Back in kind of back out and so I'm Definitely curious what it's been like For you launching this through that

System how you've been able to kind of Ride the different waves thus far you Mentioned you were missing out you Definitely started a little bit after The biggest wave of DDC with the Warby Parkers and the Dollar Shave Club Etc Exactly I mean we were able to launch in Fundraise I'd say in a different Market Than what there is today for direct to Consumer but definitely in a you know Second or third wave after a lot of the Initial Brands had launched I think for Us what was really challenging was at The time we launched there were six or Seven other kitchen brands that launched As well and we were actually both last To Market but also last to fundraise and So when we went to go fundraise every Investor we spoke with had already Picked their kitchen brand to tackle and Invest in and so you I think on the flip Side the benefit was we got to watch a Lot of other brands launch and really Figure out our place within the market And so you know I think we cut the tail End of Major D Toc investing and Launching in November 2019 and holidays Was great that's when kitchen wear you Know has its highest peak of the season But three months later Co happened and As you know most people were home they Were cooking and we really had the Benefit of really that change in Lifestyle that gave such a big boost to

The home and kitchen yeah no and that's So interesting to hear you say that you Think potentially launching toward the Later end if not last in the category Was like a benefit for you guys I Definitely want to wouldn't mind if you Talk more about why and sort of like What little tweaks and Chang did you Make watching other brands go before you Guys I think initially I even go back to My initial fundraising deck the goal Initially was I was just going to Source A product off the shelf from a factory And if you actually look at the initial Pricing of the product I think it was Around 285 for our cookware set we were Thinking of positioning the brand Focused on con of your post col Millennial who might be buying from Ikea Or something and didn't want to wait to The registry phase and I think watching A lot of the other players come out a Number were focused on stainless steel a Handful on cast iron and then a lot in The the ceramic world or nonstick we're Kind of targeting that Millennial post Col consumer and are doing a mix of Materials and so as we kind of saw the Market change we saw this really clear Gap and learning from talking with Consumers around wanting to invest in Kitchenware at the registry stage and Beyond and so with that I think it gave Us confidence to put a little bit more

Time and effort into the product design Not just do it off the shelf and seeing Others who entered with more of a design Perspective it helped us change our Color palette it helped us change our Price point what pieces that we put in The set and while a lot of those other Brands did a lot of things right we were Able to craft our space within the Kitchen dtoc world that others weren't Playing in I think one thing that was Consistent throughout was we always Wanted to be known for ease of use Non-toxic materials and design and so as We approach the brand development you Know some of that shifted in terms of How we approached it but we kept those Principles really consistent throughout I know some of the other brands in the Category and the fact that you guys Found that Avenue to focus on is so Interesting because I know of our place And it's like everyone I know who owns That famous Instagram famous pan or Whatever it's like none of them own Anything else from the brand all of them Just bought exay on on Instagram and They're all my age or younger and so It's like finding that you guys found That Gap in the market I don't know like You think of it all as being like Oh you Use the same pans your whole life but Now that I think about it it's like you Don't I still have a pan that my from my

Dad's original apartment which I should Probably get rid of now that we've had This conversation I'm like it's probably Killing me but like I feel like every Time I buy I buy something like that Next step up it's a little bit nicer Looks a little bit nicer costs a little Bit more so finding out that structure And sort of Leaning into it is just a Really interesting way to go about it Definitely and I think you know one of The approaches that we formulated which I don't think was necessarily defined at The beginning was a lot of our Competitors naturally started selling With single cookware pieces they Definitely had sets as well and I think One of the opportunities we saw in Speaking with consumers and having that Time to do the research was taking a Sets first approach so when we launched Carway we actually only had the cookware Set in five or six colors and it put a Big emphasis on these kind of a higher Price point but also as a brand you know We're saying to the customer we actually Spent the time curating the exact set That you need and nothing more versus Coming to the site and not knowing if You should buy one pan or two or the set And so that was a bit of a pivot in the R&D stage around the merchandising that We wanted to launch with and I'm curious Because you did mention you guys were in

Your words the last to fundraise as well And it sounds like fundraising was Pretty tough but how did you guys end up Getting to the yes how did you guys Figure out how to get investors to get On board with this my first raise took Took about 10 months total from start to Close I probably was doing anywhere from 5 to 8 investor meetings every single Day for almost that full 10-month period We ended up having over a hundred Investors in our first round so a lot of Discussions many more NOS than yeses but At the time it it was challenging Because all these other brands had been Invested in I was a single founder I had No hires I had a deck with no product Designed I pulled a image off of Google Into the deck around like what it could Roughly feel like and look like and I Think where I had really leaned into the Pitch was just having come from the Kitchen category and really Understanding the Dynamics of margins And financial discipline and you know Understanding of an omni channel Strategy and you know at the end of the Day there's an infinite amount of Capital out there and we just had to Keep grinding until we got all the yeses But it didn't all come at once we didn't Get some big VC check and you know call It a day I think was really helpful in The process was meeting a lot of folks

Building our Network and every month I Get a few yeses and by the time we got To the end of the process we put that Capital to work that came in earlier From the earlier checks into the product Development The Branding and a lot of Those early conversations led to some of The later checks that we got into the Round and are you you're not solding any Retailers right we are today and so Actually being Omni channel was really Built into the strategy from the start And so we were talking with Target who Were in today Bed Bath and Beyond a lot Of the major retailers before we even Launched the brand oh wow so there was Never the I guess idea or want to just Strictly stay like online e-commerce no And I speaking towards like watching Others launch in the market I think we Saw a lot of competitors wanting to just Focus on D Toc and we saw an opportunity Where if we could be first to retail Build a moat you know that's a Differentiation versus competition and Having the experience in the category I'm sure you guys have lived through This as well when you're buying a new Home registering for your your wedding Maybe a change in lifestyle to look to Be more healthy or non-toxic and what You use you traditionally are going to These major retailers because you're Buying a big assortment of products at

Once and so for us it was important to Leverage retailers to reach new Customers in those life moments whereas Our site would be kind of our you know Storefront and how we're acquiring Customers on meta and look to get that Distribution as early as we could so Bold of you to assume Dom and I are Married and or Homeowners but that does make a lot of Sense because I was looking at the Website before we hopped on and the Registry piece of it definitely stood Out to me because you're right I mean a Lot of those smaller Brands even if they Were to offer something like that it's Like what would be the point because if You're building register you go and You're like okay I can get one thing From this place which like sounds very Complicated the whole grand scheme of Things more from this conversation ation Right after a quick Break carway has expanded a lot in the 5year history that you guys have been Around into other everything in the Kitchen but lots of different categories And I'm curious of course all of the Expansions are in the same category but Adding new SKS adding new products of Course can both be a good thing or they Can be not adopted as much like how did You guys decide when was the right time To expand yeah so today we're in a

Number of categories Weare food storage Knives and utensils gadgets and part of What we're building today and why the Brands named carway home is we do have Aspirations to really tackle the full Home in kitchen and you know I think one Of the concerns from investors early on Was like all right someone buys a Cookware set then what you know they Don't come back they buy it once maybe They need a new set in five years but What are you doing in between to keep Them engaged and as mentioned one of my Learnings from the prior business that I Worked at was color drives repeat and Customers really want to have a cohesive Kitchen and as we look at the world of The kitchen there's a lot of Independently beautiful products that Exist your kitchen aid sand mixer your Wolf stove top you know your bbel coffee Maker and what ends up happening is you Have this kitchen of items that don't Really make sense together once you Combine their Aesthetics and you know we Feel like as a brand it's really Important to expand categories from a Business perspective for retention but Also you know if our goal is to Eliminate toxic materials from the Market we want to make sure customers Have that opportunity to buy into a Non-toxic kitchen and home and so as We've expanded there's been product

Categories where ceramic has been the Right material choice to help solve Toxins whereas we have some other ones That are tackling some new issues like Microplastics getting in your food more Eco-friendly measures as well and so as We start building and growing even more Product development is a huge piece of Our DNA and I think speaking towards Earlier investor pitches that was always Part of the pitch was we're going to Build this full big kitchen and some Products will be successful some might Not but it really diversifies the Portfolio for the brand and you know if Someone doesn't want cookware we've got Something else for them if they're Waiting for the next kware purchase they Need to make in many years we have other Stuff for them to buy from us and Knowing that you guys did launch at a Time where there were a lot of other Companies in the category and especially Right before Co when we were then all at Home looking at Instagram and just Doom Scrolling on our phones I know you guys Have used influencer marketing as a big Piece of how you've gotten the word out And I definitely am curious if you want To talk about what that process was like And how that has been effective in Selling something in such a crowded Market yeah our influencer program is a Huge piece of our business and actually

That it really started very early on I Think in our launch week we had a 100 or 200 ambassadors that we partnered with Post about the brand and we really got To see the power of working with Incredible creators who love the product They love the brand and really represent The values and since that point we Internally now have an ambassador Program with around three or 4 thousand Influencers that we work with across a Variety of Industries interior design a Lot of parents lifestyle Etc I think Where we see the power of influencers is Reach but also third party validation on On the products it's very different when Carway is saying you know our products Are the best to use and they're super Nonstick and we've been fortunate to Have great Partnerships with Incredible Influencers over the years that love the Products and I think what's been really Exciting as the brand has expanded is Now that we have all these product Categories the influencers that were Best performing for cookware don't Necessarily mean they're the best Performing for other categories so with That we've been able to expand the type Of influencers that we work with type of Content that we're creating and it's Been an amazing growth mechanism for the Business that's so funny I was actually Going to ask that in terms of which

Influencers sell which product better Like who buys the bakare products and From who yeah I mean we have big Communities around different product Lines and different kind of cohorts Across each and then you know we have Certain influencers that perform great Across the full kitchen and so it's Really a test and learn approach and We're also looking at site data in terms Of where people are coming from what's The best product to pair them with Etc And before before we Ser of dive into Building the actual company and some of That side of the business I definitely Wanted to ask you what got you involved In the kitchen wear space to begin with Were you always interested in cooking or Like always kind of paying attention to Product how did you get excited about This space even before you started the Company Yeah by Sher chance at my prior Company I was kind of thrown into the Kitchen brand I think at the time they Had a beauty brand and when I joined the Company I thought I was going to jump Onto that and was excited to kind of Explore that area but was put into the Kitchen and I think the one thing I Really fell in love with was just the Really lack of design approach in the Space I'm someone who likes to curate Everything that I buy whether it's the Clothing that I wear or the pieces in my

Home and you know I think the one thing That the kitchen category's been missing Is design and colors that I think Represent your personality and your Design interests and you know I think Fell in love with the category and I I I Think the other piece too is As a consumer most brands out there just Spoke towards bringing professional Tools into the home and I'm someone that I enjoy cooking but I'm not going to Spend five hours on a on a weekend Cooking something crazy and the cleanup To me is really important I want it to Be really easy and I think just the the Opportunity and synchronization of Design with non-toxic with ease of use Are three principles I really love and The kitchen happens to be one that kind Of lacked that and so ended up here but You know love the space and it's such a Great category I think the other piece I'll add is I love product development It's my background you see it come Through in in the brand with the breadth Of what we're launching and I think the Great thing about just the home in General is there's effectively an Infinite amount of products that you can Launch and you can't say that about Every category and to me that's just Really exciting is really the breadth of What you can build within the category And what has it been like for you

Personally being a Founder cuz I know You've held hire up management positions At the businesses you've worked at in The past but being a Founder is Obviously a very different animal than That and what has it been like for you Especially I know you mentioned being a Solo founder what has it been like Building the business for you personally Getting it off the ground yeah it's a Tough job I wouldn't recommend it to Everyone but it's really fun to build Something from scratch seeing customers Love the products you create building an Incredible team and seeing them grow I Think a single founder in many ways is Both more challenging but also easier I Think just surrounding yourself with Great people is tremendously important And it's been a great experience so far Obviously have had couple near-death Experiences but you know I think what We're building is really important and Impactful and I think finding a mission That you're really passionate about is Makes all the tough days worth it we got To go back to that a couple near-death Experiences you've only told us about One what are the others oh man well Probably the the biggest one that comes To mind is so we launched on November 5th 2019 and I think on November 1st we Had I think like 30 to 50 cookware sets Coming from our Factory that were

Shipped through like FedEx to our office That we were going to give to press and The FedEx guy shows up he brings all These huge boxes into the the office we Start hearing like clanging and all this Like metal hitting and once he was done Delivering we opened up all the boxes Which was for our press launch and and The packaging that we created the Structural Integrity collapsed on the Inside and so every box was just a wreck All the pans were hitting against each Other the paint was chipped the handles Were ruined and our first order which Was probably 5,000 units or so was on The container from Asia we had product That we couldn't ship to press we had Product coming on the water that we Probably couldn't ship to Consumers Because it would come destroyed and then On top of that on November 3rd which was 2 days after that we have this lid Holder that comes in our set to hang Your Lids on a wall we had these really Beautiful stainless steel hooks to be Able to place them on your cabinet door And we had those hooks hanging with a Lid holder in our office for I think a Month and on November 3rd it came Collapsing down in our office and so we Effectively had defective hooks in our Box plus packaging we had to get Creative we I think wrapped the good Units from the Press samples and like

Brown boxes and ship them to all the big Editors and I think we were getting Messages back from like Vogue and such Being like Oh we think we got your Returned product not the actual product And then we had to go to the warehouse Once the products ared we had to repack 5,000 sets we had a source new hooks to Put in the boxes and fortunately I think Shipped out our first units to Consumers By November 29th but was high pressure And the team did a great job kind of Finding a solution and yeah had we not Gotten through that I don't I don't know If we'd be around that's crazy that it Just like just showed up like everything Fell apart like I know it sounds you Were able to quickly get the first batch Of orders out but how did you guys like Adjust from there and sort of like make Those changes like was it easy to kind Of fix those packaging things or not as Much it wasn't easy to fix the ones that Were shipped I think to start as the Leader and founder you know I had to Maintain just like oh it's fine we'll Get it fixed attitude meanwhile I was You know burning inside and right yeah We redesigned the packaging we ordered Pieces here in the US and had to go Repack them we sourced hooks really Quickly so we rolled those changes into Future batches and it wasn't very very Expensive and we didn't have a lot of

Capital at the time to rework the boxes But yeah we were able to get it done and Probably a good learning to make sure That you drop test your boxes before you Ship them and you know it's better to Make sure the product's great and not Rush it you know and I think we we made That mistake and perhaps before we wrap I did want to go back and ask a little Bit about you and building out the team I guess the first question was really Who was your first hire yeah so first Hire funny enough brought on a friend From Mohawk Group which was the company That I worked at before to lead Operations and customer service which is Not my area of expertise and when we Launched the business we had four hires Including myself so it was a kind of an Individual to lead Ops and customer Service an individual to lead brand and Creative and then an individual to lead Growth and two of those three are still Here today leading both brand and Ops at The company is like a scientist Something you would hire for in terms of Like research for non-toxic stuff or is That still just a standard research and Development thing yeah so we we don't Have any uh scientists or material Experts internally but we do partner Externally with experts with Manufacturers on a lot of these areas What's in store in the future like where

Is caroway headed in the next few years Where are your aspirations I know you Talk about getting into the whole Home at some point but what's in the More immediate terms what are the next Few years like there's so much still to Do in the kitchen we have a lot of Product launches coming up a lot of new Distribution channels that we we're Opening up and focus on improving the Customer experience you know I think We've seen great growth over the years We know it works and as a business we're Looking to add but also really hone in On what we do well and make sure we're Continuing to do it well well perfect Well that puts us right about at time so Thank you so much Jordan for coming on The show of course thanks so much for Having Me and that was our conversation with Jordan Dom what did you think what was The LIE the lie was that he started out As an aspiring cook he's actually just a Regular guy he's just a normal at home Cook he's just one of us he's one of us I love that it's fun to talk to a Company like this as he talked about They came out at a time where there was Like a ton of other companies being Launched in the exact same category and They're all being launched kind of the Exact same way and it's interesting to Hear about how that impacted how they

Did make decisions and sort of how they Went from that starting point you know I Know I always love seeing who survived The d2c boom kind of yeah and I think we Spoke about this in terms of which Companies actually survived that time And why they're still here today this Just makes sense like yes non-toxic Cookware yes that makes sense yeah and I Felt that people always talk about being First and I know like if you look at Like the AI market right now like Clearly so much of all of the Fanfare And the excitement and the craziness is Because people are trying to get to that First spot or like get that highest Market share first and try to grab hold Of it like there's such a battle to the Top so it was really interesting to hear Him talk about how they were kind of Last and how being last actually worked For them because they could kind of see The little changes they wanted to make Before they launched or and you know he Mentioned like the little changes he Wanted to make in like his pitch to Investors which is something we don't Talk about often I know it reminds me of That Adam Grant book Originals how Non-conformists move the world because One of the big things they talked about In that book is that the people who are First are often not who wins especially On the business side and they're often

Not who is the company that lasts at the End of the day and I mean we can think About that a lot of like the websites we Use now and how like we don't barely use Anything from like the do Boom the first Wave of those websites most of them Didn't survive and so him talking about The benefit of going last just like made Me think about that because it isn't Always about going first no yeah it's Preparation meets opportunity right we Always hear about Founders wanting to Build really really fast but I kind of Like hearing a Founder that took more of Their time you know studied what they Were doing and tried to make it right Cuz there was no need to be first right Like they did it on the timeline that Worked for them and in the end yeah they Might have been last but I don't know They were right on time for what they Needed to be at and it's funny to think About too cuz we just said all of that About not being first but then they were The first to retail which definitely Helped them but I think that all ties Into it like I think if they had gone First on D Toc they probably wouldn't Have thought of moving into retail as Fast which ended up being really helpful For them to have done that earlier yeah Cuz he said it in the beginning right That it was always his plan to kind of Move into brick and mortar stores yeah

Especially because he's I mean he's Right every time I order a pan online I Feel crazy like I want to go and look at It and touch it and then not buy it and Then buy it online am I crazy or maybe This was like a few years ago when I was At Insider covering retail I feel like There was a moment and maybe this wasn't Everywhere but at least maybe in fashion And Beauty there was a time when Everyone was like e-commerce is going to Be it and there's not going to be brick And mortar and brick and mortar is just Going to die am I crazy or that was like A thing no that was definitely a thing And it's like the Amazon ification of Everything how like everyone just Assumes you want to buy everything Online and it's just like I actually Prefer to buy as little online as I can And I mean I definitely do buy stuff Online like do I need to go and pick up My dog's food from the auto ship once a Month in person like no I can order that Online she gets the same thing every Month but it's like buying stuff for Myself like clothes and all that stuff Like I really just do like buying it Better in person but I also like the Convenience where it's like if I buy From a shoe company I know the shoe fits And I know my size then you can buy it Online from there so I feel like their Model of like doing DC but getting into

Retail really early That makes a lot of sense cuz if like I Own one of their pans that I gone and Bought it Bad Bath and Beyond dress in Peace I loveed that store I could just Buy another one online yeah and that's a Great system no I know I'm getting older Because when I was looking at their pots And pant I was like that is a nice pot I Was like fantasizing in my head I was Like the things I would do with that pot In my kitchen I was like bake wear too Oh my gosh Top Chef I would be I would Be doing that no I feel you cuz I was Doing it in like even more of like a Lamer way because I was like those Storage containers my leftovers would Slay and those like I was like I need That yeah I was like storage containers I know exactly what I'm doing with this Exactly I did also think it was super Interesting his story though about their First shipment I feel like a lot more Founders have stories like that than we Get to hear about how it's like they Just didn't realize the packaging they Had picked just wasn't going to work I Know so it's like the products came and Like they're all destroyed like I feel Like based on how many things I've got In the mail from like very established Retailers that were destroyed I have a Feeling a lot more companies have those Like early War Stories than we often get

To hear I know I love hearing about the Early Logistics of it all and figuring Out what ships and what doesn't ship Yeah cuz I mean it's hard to believe That people would just get that stuff Right the first time I always think it's Interesting to look at like how stuff is Packaged like how some stuff can just Come in the box that's in and other Stuff has to be in like box setion with 10 lbs of like packing material like bet A lot more brands have to deal with Figuring out these Logistics than I Think we hear of yeah I know I would Actually read a book about that of just Packaging mishaps and everything that a Brand has learned from it cuz yeah it Must be harder than we think especially Shipping a bunch of pots well obviously It is harder than we say yeah no I'll Never forget I once got a cast iron from Amazon and it got the email that had Been dropped off and I went down to get It and both the handle and the like the Little other handle on the side so like Both handles essentially were sticking Out of the box and I was like oh my like This thing went for a journey like half The pan was like out of the box but Because it was cast IR like it was fine Because those things were like Indestructible but I was just like oh This this wasn't done right wait that's Kind of funny well did you check all of

Your pots and pans after talking to him Are they poisonous I just wallowed about It and know that they definitely are I Mean I literally have a pan from my Dad's it's either from my mom or my Dad's like first apartment so it's no Offense to my parents but it is it's old It's real real old I asked my parents to And they were like all of our pots are Fine except that one we cook eggs in and I'm like hm well except that one we cook What Eggs maybe it's time this is definitely This was a good reminder though that I Probably should replace my kitchen stuff Yeah it's time it's time and also to pay Attention to where you get kitchen stuff From cuz of course big pan industry Would be poisoning Us in America as big Pan Would found is hosted by myself TechCrunch senior reporter Becca scac Alongside senior reporter Dominic madori Davis found is produced by Maggie Stamitz with editing by Kell our Illustrator is Bryce Durban founds Audience development in social media is Managed by Morgan little Alysa Stringer And Natalie chman techcrunch's audio Products are managed by Henry pikovit Thanks for listening and we'll be back Next week


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