Can venture capital survive a three-year liquidity drop? | Equity Podcast

This episode is sponsored by Morgan Stanley atwork visit morganstanley.com Assessment to get your free transaction Readiness assessment [Music] Today hello and welcome back to equity a Podcast about the business of startups Where we unpack the numbers and the Nuance behind the headlines my name is And this is our interview show where we Sit down with a guest think about their Work and unpack the rest today however Not really a guest more of a friend we Are once again speaking with Jan tier Senior data editor at crunchbase news my Old corporate and writing home Jan Welcome back to the show thank you Alex It's great to be here and lovely to see You in the new year I know new year new Us even though we look just like we did Last year although I can say where I Live is finally catching up on a couple Years of not snowing so I am freezing Cold and very jealous of you out in California where I should be well it Even feels cold to me here so don't even Tell me what temperature it is cuz I'll Scream all right on the show today if Youve heard Jana on the Pod before you Know what we're going to get up to we're Talking about the end of 2023 as Adventurer Capital year data points from Around the world couple of key sectors What's going on in the stages and then

As we wrap up I have pulled some new hot Piping crunchbase data for us to chew on To get an early look at what's going on In q 2024 so Jana not that I think we relish The role of being the bearers of bad News but crunchbase wrote that 2023 was On Pace to be the lowest year for Venture funding since 2018 which was Further back than I anticipated so I'm I'm kind of curious as a starting point Did that result surprise you and how do You feel about it in general yeah on one Level it seems like we're going back far Further than most of the people that I've been speaking to that most people Think that this year would be on par With pre-pandemic numbers and as you Said it's gone back we've di back even Further to all the way back to sort of Numbers above 2017 and Below 2018 so That's a long way to go back and just to Sort of set the numbers it's 285 billion In 2023 that was invested globally in Venture so that's down around 38% so Just under 40% year-over year and 2020 2 Was north of 400 billion and the reason That's higher in 2022 than 2023 is the First half was Stronger The Venture Markets hadn't really reset q1 in fact Was I think a record-breaking q1 and Then Q2 it started coming down and then Q3 is really when you saw the Venture Markets catching up to the fact that

This was a very very different funding Environment so as I say 2022 was north Of 400 billion and then the peak was 2021 North of 600 billion 6 660 billion In that Mark so we are way down from That Peak and going back to early years But I also think it's interesting that 2023 whilst it's down it does sort of Mirror those prepandemic years it's About 20% down from the pre-pandemic Years so it's not 50% down from pre- Pandemic definitely more than 50% from The peak but you know that's where we Are I mean I'm always torn between how To think about things if you measure up Or down if you measure down from the 2021 Peak you know we're off more than 50% it feels like a dramatic contraction But if you think about it from zero up It's still more than a quar trillion Dollars last year dispersed by Venture Capital firms into startups so it's it's Kind of like pick your poison but let's Dial into these numbers a little bit More make them a bit more granular for Folks you wrote that early stage funding Last year was down more than 40% late Stage by 37% and Seed just over 30% down So my thought about that is we all knew That late stage funding was struggling Cuz the IPO window closed valuations Reset and a lot of unicorns got stuck But the early stage numbers were Honestly worse than I thought did they

Surprise you or were they in line with Kind of the crunch based thought process It definitely surprised me you always Think when the Market's corrected Everyone said late stage is going away That no one's going to invest in late Stage because companies are not going to Go public but we're all going to invest At earlier stage or at seed as sort of The focus becomes earlier and I think in The last downturn in 2008 what we saw is Everyone focused at early stage I think What's been different this time around Is the focus of been at seed so when I Talk to investors they're all saying They're pivoting towards seed funding Seed is where the new companies are Coming through that seems to be the Stage that most investors or most Investors that I talked to I'm most Excited about and series a what I've Heard from investors is that series a Has become a lot tougher yes that the Bar to reach a series a has become a lot Harder and so we've really seen in 2023 the funding as I say people have Gone earlier than early stage the Funding has been very sparse it'll be Interesting to see in 2024 whether the seed funded companies Are now growing into that series a and Series a gets a bit of a lift in 2024 But definitely that early stage was Massively hit in 2023 and everyone kind

Of veered away and went earlier yeah I'm Actually sympathetic to the decision to Not just go early stage by firms that May have been investing later on but all The way to seed which is you know apart From predent Angel the absolute starting Point for Capital ACC creation of Startups because if you want to start Investing in a company that has a lot of Potential and a lot of room for growth You want to start with as close to a Blank sheet of paper as you can versus a Company that may have raised a seed a Seed one a seed 2 you know over the last Couple of years and now has kind of a Rougher looking cap table so if you want To just reset the clock for your own Fund I mean going back to seed just Honestly makes a lot of sense to me I'm Sure you've heard this too but like seed Valuations are still relatively High yes But I mean at least you can get to a Company at a sub $20 million pre and There's not 85,000 investors in six seed Runs on the c table so it's it's Probably cleaner to boot yeah I think What's interesting you know I'm doing Some analysis right now which is looking At seed in the US market and I've been Talking to a number of seed investors And what they're saying is that when They're investing in this market there's Going to be higher conviction and There's a higher bar so for then prices

Haven't necessarily come down but the Quality of companies and the quality of Revenue they're far more focused and so In a way the seed rounds haven't come Down but definitely the metrics around Seed have improved and so they think This class of seed companies is going to Be a lot better I think the other Interesting finding is that seed in the US was actually up in 2022 so it's down This year by about 30% but the peak Market for seed was 2022 which shows you That relative to the other stages seed Has come down but not as much as we've Seen because we saw late stage come down In 22 and three and we also saw that Happen to early stage as well so seed Was up in 2022 it's only come down more Recently so it is I think the most Robust funding stage in this market It'll be as I said it'll be interesting To see how that progresses in 2024 yeah I I'm really curious to know like how Are those companies that raised a seed In 2022 that you just mentioned that had The kind of outsized year they would be Right now gearing up to raise their Series a roughly if you think about Traditional Venture timings so maybe What we're going to see here is kind of Like the echo generation of the 2021 era For seed fundings kind of see how they Convert in this more stringent Environment if you will to series a

Fundings I don't know the answer to that But I do know that the old rule of thumb That growing at three figures and having A million dollars in ARR is pretty dated By this point I'm not saying that I know Where the new series a thresholds are For this year but I don't think all Those companies are going to clear them So maybe we could see even some some Struggles at seed yeah all right that's The macro picture we're going to drill Into some stages in a minute but the Thing that I want to kind of stress is I Was looking through the charts you guys Put together and Q4 2023 was the worst Quarter since at least the first of 2021 For deals and Dollars around the world For Venture Capital funding so sometimes The quarters can be better or worse but We didn't end the year on a high note And I I'm actually I'm almost a little Surprised by that I feel like as last Year ended there was so much going on I Thought the numbers were going to be Better just as we wrapped up last year Yeah yeah so the quarter was down you Know it's been a bumpy year in quarters One quarter will be up and the next Quarter will be down and the next Quarter up and I think it's bumpy Because of those very large rounds that Went into Ai and some of the other Sectors so it wasn't a sort of clean Line but we definitely ended the year on

A lower note I think it's you know one Of the slowest quarters we've seen for Many years and I I don't know I get the Feeling that everyone was just a little Tired as I've said investors are being Much more cautious about where they're Putting their dollars but definitely What they're also experiencing from Their LPS is that the LPS are Overextended they don't want Capital Calls to invest and so I just think it Kind of it sort of symbolizes where we Are in the year that even the fourth Quarter was the lowest this whole year And the lowest for a number of years and That's actually when I was writing about The overall results from last year That's what hit me the hardest it wasn't That Q4 wasn't a gang busters order or That it wasn't a return to form the fact That we seem to like drop one more Notch Lower in terms of venture capital Dispersement intensity as the year ended Really felt like a sour note to end on I'm tired of of having this like this Riff with you because if you go back to 2021 every quarter was the same new Records new all-time highs craziness Insanity oh my gosh and now I feel like For the last eight nine quarters we've Been saying the same thing which is ah Ah make it stop you know these Trends Are are longer and stickier than I would Like them to be CU I would love to bring

Some good news to the people out there Building stuff yeah well I think the Excitement is at seed there is a whole New host of companies coming through I Think what's been interesting to me and Talking to people is that you know at The time when the huge dollars went in In 2021 everyone was talking about how Tech Is overtaking the world and these Numbers make sense that Venture is just Going to grow and grow and grow and now It's at this kind of level because of The impact it's having ah and then you Know you fast forward to today and You're talking to people and everyone is Saying 2021 the values are out of whack Almost at every stage they were saying Seed valuations in 2021 would not hold Up in this market the series a Evaluations would not hold up in this Market etc etc so every stage was Overinvestment bigger or larger Venture Story yeah which we'll get to in just a Second I very much want to talk about Two sectors that are very dear to me Ai And web 3 but before we get into that Everybody a very short Break is your company planning to go Public or conduct a shareholder Liquidity program within the next 18 to 24 months did you know that proactively Planning for your next private company Liquidity event or IPO can help you make

Maintain greater control over timelines And outcomes Morgan Stanley at work Believes that when you have the right Technology and systems in place working In harmony leading up to a transaction You can prepare and execute with more Accuracy and ease visit Morganstanley.com for/ assessment to Connect with their issuer strategy and Excellence team for a free assessment to Find out if your company is transaction Ready again that's morganstanley.com Assessment to get your free assessment Today I do want to talk about two Particular sectors that I love and I'm Very glad that you guys have been Tracking as well the number that did Surprise me the most was that according To you guys is counting AI startups Raised about $50 billion last year which Was up from 45 46 billion in 20122 but Only about 9% and I'm trying to figure Out how to think about that because on One hand any sort of growth in a venture Market in contraction is a big result Because you're going counter narrative Counter Trend and doing quite well on The other hand $50 billion would we know Some of the mega rounds that went into That number it gets a little smaller When you think about what was actually Available for actually young Tech Startups and so I'm curious Jan $50 Billion bullish bearish middle I I can't

Quite put a label on it myself yeah I Think you're right I mean there Foundation model companies and we talk About three of them open AI anthropic And inflection AI together raised 18 Billion of that 50 billion so as you say Much money yeah a bunch of money went to Some leading companies in the sector and So are we really up in AI you know Investment has gone into AI over the Past decade so I think what's very Different about this sector when you Compare to something like web 3 is the Sector generative AI is new and what the Llm models can do is very new and so There's a lot of excitement around that Because of the productivity that could Come out of these developments and we Know this is not the end there are going To be new things which come out of AI so I think there's a lot of excitement but I think what it reflects as well is so Much money has gone into AI I don't Think this is the highest in AI over Time because the self-driving that Sector and the sort of AI in that sector In previous years you know a lot of Money had gone in and also I think you Don't just have new companies who are Going to win in the space obviously the Foundation model companies are leading And they're newer and they're getting Funded but if you look at incumbents if They're weaving this into this

Technology they're going to benefit and So it's not clear that the winners are Just going to be the new companies there Are a lot of mlops companies are coming In to help you manage those models and Manage data so there's a whole bunch of Investments that's gone into that layer But I think what it reflects is AI is Going to seep through the whole industry And it impacts everyone and so it's not Just about new investments into the Sector it's about existing Investments That have been made over time as well as All these companies who raise so much Money adding AI into their suite and so They benefit as well I still think it is Bullish the fact that it's up and this Year was down so much for me it still Shows the bullishness but again it'll be Interesting to see in 2024 because a lot Of those Foundation models have raised Money at this point there will be some Big rounds to Foundation models I think Coming out of Europe and other markets Sure FR um but it'll be interesting to See where AI sits in in 2024 I have so Many comments about what you just said But I'll start with my concern about AI Venture funding is almost in response to What you just said which is that it's Not just going to be Tech startups that Build new models deploy them well and Build the tooling around them it's going To also be these incumbents well I'm

Tired of Microsoft and Apple and Amazon And alphabet and I would like some new Power Players I think honestly we could Use a couple more big companies to keep The other ones honest and so that $50 Billion number going into AI to me is The option it's the bet on a new major Coming into the mix I just I would be Very sad if Microsoft's ability to kind Of like get a big chunk of open AI ends Up carving the AI Market into alphabet Versus Microsoft I mean boring like how Did that work out for us in search Jan Not that well you know we ended up with Google which is going to hell and Bing Which no one used congratulations so I'm Hoping that some of these companies do Really challenge the incumbents but flip The script to an industry where there Aren't any incumbents well that's Actually not quite true but web 3 crypto If you will according to your data Investment fell 73% year-over-year in Web 3 from $28 billion in 2022 to $7.6 Billion in 2023 three which as far as I Can tell is pretty close to zero last Year that's not many dollars for a whole Sector of the technology World thoughts Yes no I agree I'm not very close to the Sector we have as there journalists who Cover it but definitely that was it and Obviously 2022 was also a huge dip for Web 3 so it's you know trailing down Obviously Bitcoin is up so that's

Interesting but I think they're Obviously investors who are focused here But they move significantly away from The sector as an area to invest or as an Area of opportunity and I think those Numbers reflected massively down 73% I Want to frame this as the inverse of What you said about AI you said that AI Is going to end up in everything and Make us all more productive right which Honestly given the the Microsoft Co-pilot news and coding work and Honestly okay I can see that web 3 is a Way to do things more slowly more Expensively and with new security risks It's not exactly a productivity booster It does have some cool ideas it does Have some cool cool themes and Narratives but I don't think you turn to Web 3 to get more done you turn to it to Get stuff done in a different way you Think is better but I think that Productivity point you made about AI is Kind of like the shadow that is over web 3 and crypto because they don't have That same put in a dollar get $3 of Productivity out of it that every Business can understand it and invest in And so I I guess from that perspective Maybe we should be surprised that there Was still 7.6 billion invested last year Versus oh no it was only 7.6 billion Maybe we need to be more negative netive Than positive I would agree and that's

Why I'm not invited to Parties oh boy we'll talk about this Year later on Jana but do you think the Web 3 fundraising number goes up this Year with Bitcoin ETF going on the FTX And binance lawsuits kind of sorted out Is that A New Path ahead for crypto or Another year in the woods I think it's Another year in the woods my experience When I did talk to folks who invested in The space I would keep asking them about What are the use cases for web 3 and Everyone kind of sat with a store of Value And I think there is value in a store of Value I think there are some interesting Models here but I don't think when People were describing the use cases I Could see anything extremely tangible That I could kind of grasp onto and so I Think that's sort of where we are so I Don't think investment will be up in 2023 in 2024 sorry my year in the sector Don't worry I'm still writing 2021 on my Checkbook that I got when I was 17 okay So and if you don't like by the way our Comments about web 3 and crypto I think It's perfectly fair to say that we're Being too pessimistic but prove it to me Build something that I can't wait to use For example Jana I don't know if you saw This but there's a new Little Hardware Device called the rabbit and it's like a There's a company called rabbit. Tech

And they have anything called the R1 It's like a little it's like an llm Inside of a box essentially that can do Things for you and they sold out their First production run of 10,000 and now Theyve sold it their fourth run of 10,000 because people really want it Show me the crypto product that has Similar kind of in Market potential Apart from gambling you know yeah enough Of getting emails for myself that I'll Have to answer later I want to compare And contrast the American and the European early stage Market because There's something interesting going on Here that I think we should talk about One of your charts and I'll have a link To this in the show notes shows that for The North American Market early stage Investment declined from Q4 22 every Single quarter through Q4 of 23 in Contrast over in Europe great stability In total amount invested in the early Stage from Q4 of 22 through Q4 of 23 Trying to sort this out trying to Understand what this tells me do you Think the European early stage Market is Holding up well because of the quality Of company or just because it's smaller And therefore had less room to fall but It just seems to be durable compared to The American numbers that we're seeing Yeah I think what's interesting in Europe is you know Europe has built up a

Very competitive Venture ecosystem Everyone over invested in 2021 but I Think relatively speaking the ecosystem Less so I think a lot of the late stage Investment in Europe came from outside Came from the US you know these Global Multi-stage private Equity firms came in And invested in the hottest and most Interesting European startups and so I Think Europe is just I think it's a very Robust tyght ecosystem they didn't Overinvestment and so that has kind of Held together so when I look at Europe I Think it's very well positioned and you Know when you talked about AI I think There's some interesting AI companies Coming out of Europe as well and I I Think they definitely do want to as a Market for in the space in the Foundation model space against some of The companies coming out of the US and So I'm hoping this is going to be much More competitive than what we've seen Around the last wave of the social media Companies and the search companies this Space could be a lot more competitive Because no one wants to rest their Technology just on one company they want A competitive landscape and I think Europe is well placed to play given the Talent it has the people who came out of Deep Mind Etc so I think Europe you know It's an interesting Market it's held up And I think it's the one market when you

Compare to North America Asia Europe It's the one market where it was still Above pre-pandemic funding overall yes European early stage investment is one Of the brightest lights that I can see Out there and to be clear the data isn't Like oh my God we're matching 2021 but Certainly in terms of durability and Contrast to other sector stages and Geographies it's holding up well which Bodess quite well for Europe just Because we're here right now Jan a lot Of talk about mistra over in France a Foundation model company a lot of talk About how the EU is being early on AI Regulation compared to many other Regions or or countries how bullish are You on the ability for a European state To come up with like a real Continental Leader in the realm of AI to give them a Champion in this fight against basically China and the us when you think about Other kind of AI superpowers yeah I Think there's a good shot I hope The Regulators don't get in the way of these Companies building up because I think if There is more competition in this market I think it's going to be a lot better For everyone and I think what's Interesting is even in the European AI Companies you're seeing a lot of American Venture investors move in and Fund those companies so I think there's A lot of interest from the US I'm sure

From strategics in the US in funding Companies within the European market as Well I now think we should run an Analysis of all the VCS with over 5 Billion AUM who didn't invest in Anthropic or open Ai and see what Fraction of those are invested in mistol Because I bet you they were like yes we're going to France no I I and like we joke a little Bit but I was on the hugging face Leaderboards I think it was hugging face The other day and I think mol's models Are showing up rather well in terms of Testing I'm butchering that it wasn't a Hugging face it was a different AI Leaderboard the point is m is making Cool Tech that's all you need to know Everybody don't V my statements too Closely I'm only now learning how to run My own llms locally so I'm a Noob now One more dat a point on Europe and then I'll talk about Asia and then this year So overall European Venture dollar Volume past the early stage ended up at Kind of a lowb in Q4 23 similar to what We saw in North America worst quarter of The year is there anything positive you Can throw out there about later stage European investing that folks might want To know as we look backwards to 2023 or Is it better left UND disected yeah I Mean I think what it reflects is the Broader market trends which has everyone

Stepped away from late stage and so You're going to see that in the European Market as well there are pockets of Interest or companies who kind of stand Out we do think we haven't talked too Much about the IPO markets but there is Some sentiment that it's not going to be A very strong year but I think we Definitely will see some interesting Companies come out so late stage hasn't Gone away but it's definitely massively Done and I think Europe reflects exactly The same Trends yeah that's what I saw In it but I wanted to at least pose the Question in case I was missing something Critical I think you guys had a a Subhead in one of your pieces that was Like as the US goes so goes the world And when you think about the Venture Capital Market that's true if you look At the numbers the total share of the Global Venture Market that the US Controls is once again going back up Which is I think indication that there's Been enough Retreat around the world to Rebalance things to where they they were Before and one of those markets that Really has contracted and I think given Leadership back to the US is Asia unlike Most Venture charts that had kind of a Run up to a peak in 21 and then back Down again Asian Capital especially Because of where China was at the time Had a peak in 2018 and then a bit of a

Trough and then another peak in 21 and Now we're back down again so kind of a a Double Peak to a trough anything Positive that you can say about what's Going on over in Asia I mean the Chinese Venture Capital Market seems to be a Mess but India is the most populous Nation in the world and rather digital Anything bubbling over there we should Know about you know I think China's Obviously the biggest market India is The second biggest Market in Asia the Thing that we've seen is a lot of money Has gone into electric vehicles in China Into AI in China into semiconductors These are very big rounds into huge Strategic Industries sure so yes a Downturn but there's been some you know Large investments into some very Critical and key sectors in the Chinese Market specifically I'm not sure you Know what to read of that and why the Market is down as much as we're seeing But a huge retraction but still there's A lot of vibrancy in certain industries Within those markets as well and China Specifically it's almost a rebalance Yeah cuz I like money has been kind of Like drawn from other parts of like Traditional Chinese investment you know E-commerce social media digital stuff Has been now really refocused to Physical chips and so forth so we'll see How that all plays out but I just missed

The days when the Chinese Venture Capital Market was like you know Competing with the US market for total Scale it was cool to see more Competition because it meant more Companies funded you know faster Probably pace of innovation and so forth Yeah it's it's disappointing to see my Home country end up once again getting Towards 50% into the total Market it Just feels to it feels like it's too Much it's too concentrated in like eight Zip codes for me to be comfortable but Jan let's put a pen in all that and Let's instead talk about this year I ran Some crunchbase searches and I'm going To present to you the data roughly for The first half of January of this year We've seen 745 is equity transactions worth about $7.8 billion there's 13 Mega rounds in That nine involving generative Ai and a Total of 31 crypto rounds worth about 200 mil last year it was a lot more uh For the same time frame same search and Crunch Bas 2,600 transactions 13 plus Billion dollars 25 to 30 Mega rounds I Know Venture data lags you and I talked About this for years we worked together And since then but it seems like the gap Between how we started last year and how We started this year is pretty large so Am I being too pessimistic by looking at The data already or is this not a great

Sign for how 2024 started stting for the Global Venture Capital Market yeah so It's down for the first couple weeks in January from year over year yeah it's Difficult to just isolate you know we Are doing these monthly Recaps where we Try and look at Venture month over month Just because things are shifting and Changing all the time good move so I Think it's valid to take a look and sort Of understand what is happening what are The shifts what I hear from speaking to Folks out there is that they don't Expect 2024 to be much different from 2023 and what they mean by that that This is going to continue to be a tough Funding year for companies that Investors are not going to suddenly open The spigot Gates what we've seen in 2023 We will continue to see into 2024 so That's largely the perspective I'm Getting and what you're showing is it's Even receded more so that'll be Interesting to see if it we cut back Even more in 2024 the one thing that Folks have said to me that would shift Things is if the IPO markets are a Little bit more vibrant there are some Companies that go out and do well that Will create a bit more excitement on the Funding side and that will sort of boy Things up again but certainly the Perspectives from speaking to everyone Is that they don't expect 2024 given

What's going on in Venture given Everyone overinvestment in 2021 given That they're not quite seeing even Though values are up in 2023 where you Look year to date and so some tech Stocks are in a better place than they Were in for sure yeah still everyone Feels that the kind of market conditions Are somewhat similar and so we're going To see a cautious 2024 well as an Eagles Fan if you watch American football 2025 Is going to be our year I swear so uh Maybe that's gonna also be true for the World of startup investment as my Producer just said go Birds woo we just Threw away a really good start to with Season with a terrible postseason Performance not that I'm in tears or Anything Jan I'm just crying to myself No it's fine yeah let's let's push it Out to 202 2 I think is what everyone's Doing the thing is though if we have to Wait that long for a real return to Public offerings I mean how can Venture Capital survive a three-year liquidity Drought I mean that is so long to not Have cash on cash returns to not have Capital recycling to have Founders Locked up in the same it just I mean There's a really salubrious effect to Exits for the entire world of startups Adventure and I I don't want to be a Panicky boy but like at some point you Got to go out sometime how many more

Quarters can we wait to get some of the What, 1500 2,000 unicorns out the door The crunch Bas unicorn tracker to me is A cool data source but also a terrifying Image like think at all those companies That need to get out and currently the Number of IPOs we have is one private Filing from a crypto company like it's Not much yeah no one else is worried Apparently but I'm freaking out yeah you Know the Unicorn board is now north of 1,500 companies so it's been sort of Sitting below that now we're North They've raised over 900 billion it's 900 And worth also we've gone over the 5 Trillion markets always been sitting Below just because there've been a few Assets and fewer companies coming on so The board is growing there are a lot of Companies sitting there I do think Everyone's talking about the m&a market Will become more attractive in 2024 Because prices have come down and there Are leading companies with dollars who Will look at Acquisitions given prices Have come down so I think we're not Going to see the heights of 2021 in m& But we're going to see some activity I Do think there are some companies who Are growing with strong revenue and Enough Revenue who might come out and Test the markets this year just because It's slower and you have to go out at Some point so I think we will see some

Of that but there has been no so I think We'll see a bit more liquidity in 2024 but I don't think it's after to the Races from speaking to analysts you know Who handle the IPO markets that they say A lot of people are reaching up at more About 2025 oh my God gosh I'm going to Literally retire by the time we get the 2020 unicorns out the door come on People pull the trigger like your Numbers are still your numbers whether You show them to us or not so why don't You just show them our numbers show us Your numbers I yeah I don't understand It well Jan I really wanted to have a Bit more positivity on this week's Episode than well European early stage Is doing okay but it does seem that when We look at the data and pars it that There's not that much positivity to be Found so here's hoping that the start of 2024 is slower than the rest of the Quarter that when we have you on the Show next time we can Crow and talk About how things have gotten better and How there's money for everybody and how Everyone's making the series a crunch Look like no problem at all next time Yes Hopefully but J I can't let you go Without digging into our shared business You and I are both crunch basers of one Nature or Another You current me former How is crunch Bas doing yeah we're good

We're busy we have an offsite coming up So lots of rejiggering around AI yeah And looking at how you know we have a Lot of data but we think AI can do a lot To make that data more useful and so a Lot more to come from the crunch base Side well if you need a beta tester as a Shareholder I'm in or I volunteer as Tribute or whatever so we would love That I appreciate it yeah and I love That you were crunching our numbers you Know it's like falling off the bike Still got it I do that I love it when Someone else does so all right well Jana Before I Let You Go Jan to over crunch Bas news where can people find you on The internet um so on Twitter Sher and I'm on crunchbase news you can see all Our stories there and we're really Closely tracking the Venture ecosystem So hopefully we give numbers that are Useful for the industry oh well I mean I Steal them all the time big fan so at Least I'm your number one fan thanks Alex that is all the time we have for Today a big thanks to Jan as always for Dropping by and helping us parse all the Numbers if you need even more equity in The meantime we are Equity pod over on X And threads and of course we have two Sister shows in the Tech runch podcast Network there's chain react C all things Crypto and found telling you the founder Stories you need to know next we'll talk

To you soon Bye Equity is hosted by myself editor-in Chief of Tech runch Plus Alex Wilhelm And Tech runch senior reporter Mary an Aeto we are produced by Teresa loans Solo with editing by Kell Bryce Durban Is our illustrator and a big thank you To the audience development team and Henry pet who manages Tech wrench audio Products thank you so much for listening And we'll talk to you next Time