Building Companies with Longer Time Horizons

All right thanks for joining us everyone I think Alex just mentioned but we are Going to be taking questions via slido The code up there feel free to scan it Um anyway this is my first disrupt I've Been at TechCrunch for about six months Which if I were a Founder would probably Feel like a decade but of course most Founders don't even get that long for Their uh for their Investments Um and yet Gene is with us here today he Founded Selah 11 years ago spent seven Of those years in stealth uh producing And working on Silicon anodes for Lithium-ion batteries that are going to Promise to boost boost battery density By 20 to 40 percent Gene mentioned to me that it took about Twice as long as he expected to get to This point but now the company is worth Three billion dollars and it's uh Building a gigafactory in Washington Which I understand you have some news About We do actually just this morning the White House announced the first 2.8 Billion dollars of awards under the Bipartisan infrastructure law and Sila Was the recipient of a 100 million Dollar award that'll support the build Out of our Moses Lake Factory that's Great congrats thank you So Gene as your company's grown how Would you say the landscape for

Long-term funding has changed I think it's gotten a lot better Um you know especially in the early Stages you know places like the engine Um are brand new you know we had to Scrap for absolutely every dollar I Think there were sort of pitch 50 Investors to maybe get one term sheet in The early days and Um but certainly in our space of Electric electrification kind of the World recognized that this was going to Be inevitable probably about three years Ago and so that's accelerated how much Money is available for this kind of Technology but also just other hard-tech Technologies as people see that you can You can win with these kind of Technologies and they also happen to be Fairly counter cyclical right so if you Look at all the EV stocks like they're Not down the way growth stocks are down Or fintech is down so Um it's it's also good investments from Uh from that angle yeah so take us back To those early days when you were Looking for investors for some of your First Investments Um how did you know that you found the Right found the right ones I I don't know that I did but I think One of the things we did was Um we were well partly because I was too Much of an engineer but we would always

Sort of tell the whole story and gory Detail and there are only so many people That actually wanted to dig in and Understand the details of battery Chemistry and why this one was not going To work long term and why this one was And why this was a really going to be a Really good bet and and so that's partly Why we had to spend you know Months with 50 investors educating them We basically had to educate all of our Investors on the market itself and only A few ended up participating turned out Those were sort of some of the best Investors in the valley period right I Mean folks like Mike Spicer at Sutter Hill Bayern Dieter at Bessemer and in Part I think you know the same approach That they take to their other businesses They took to this which is you do the Work you you educate yourself you work With Founders and and you figure it out And there's a lot less competition when It's not sort of chasing the trend right Yeah so I want to dig into that a little Bit more in those early meetings you'd Mentioned to me that you'd made some Mistakes what do you feel like those Were Oh I know I made many I don't remember Which ones I told you about Um but I I think I mean for one just Being too much of an engineer sometimes Um you know I'm much I'm very good at

Forgetting mistakes and there are a lot Just to be clear but Um I think kind of more importantly was Building trust and you know so I'll see What what what I think a lot of people Get wrong is they say look we're going To deliver X by y time frame don't worry About the details and the problem with Hard tech things is they take twice as Long you're always you know you oh There's always something unforeseen and So if you just do that and you failed And the investor loses confidence in Your toast Um you know I'm sure you guys have had This experience right but if you say is Look there are these five problems this Is what I'm doing about each one and the Next time you say look we solve these Three you know these two we haven't Figured it out here's what we're doing Now oh by the way we found these other Three here's what we're gonna do you Actually build trust over time and then It you know it it doesn't I mean it Matters how long it takes but but I Think the investors will give you a much Longer Runway right if you're if you're Doing that so the you know the mistake Would be to sort of say look we're Definitely going to hit this by this Time frame because you just don't know That that's true so were you transparent About that up front that uh it was

Unclear how long it was going to take or And or throughout the entire process Um both uh but I think it's especially Important throughout the entire process Um I think that's sort of you know I I Think you also don't want an investor That doesn't understand the risk they're Taking so a lot of times we would Literally say look like they go well This all sounds great and it's like yeah I just want you to understand the risk Is this right the risk you know and Today the risk for us is scaling up you Know another 100x to Automotive volumes Like that's very different than Producing you know in in small consumer For small consumer device Electronics That's the risk now that's a much lower Risk than the science we invented the Sort of hundreds of patents we achieved The fact that we ship commercial product Like the risk is you know maybe 100 Times less but that's still where the Risk is and so I want to investors that Are willing to look at our team and say Look that's the risk this is the right Team to do that yeah Milo the engine Wasn't around when Gene first started Out but if it were how do you think you And your team would have helped yeah Um Maybe for those who don't know the Engine it's a venture fund that focuses On investing in companies that have the

Potential to solve some of the base Challenges that we face it means that we Make a lot of investments in hardware And we provide more than just Capital Within the engine we have mentors and Advisors that we build the network Around Founders and then we also provide Ready-made space that has Labs Industrial workspaces just a lot of Support for those Founders and the idea Is to help you get off the ground quick And get moving without a lot of capital Investment we have we had the benefit of Being at Georgia Tech when we were Founded and to those sort of similar we Had access to these Labs because of my Professor co-founder we wouldn't be here Without that and I think you kind of Kind of create that in in a different Setting that's you know maybe even more Favorable than inside a university yeah I think it's about the ecosystem end the Space right the combination of the two Having like-minded ambitious Founders Surrounding you and then also having the Physical space with all the amenities That you need to be successful you don't Have to decide do I want to buy that a Piece of equipment or not it's just There try it out yeah Aaron I want to get to this idea of Long-term bets and how we differentiate Those from other sorts of Investments Um how would you define a long Horizon

Timeline for your Investments yeah so Index as a sort of multi-stage venture Capital fund we invest in a lot of Software I would say the vast majority Of the companies we invest in are pure Software most of which are SAS And you know we have with our LPS Agreements about you know Capital time Frames and return time frames that we Have to be really conscious of but we do Make Very careful bets in much longer time Horizon deeper tech companies we Invested in Aurora covariant which is a Ai-powered robotics for supply chain and Manufacturing some sort of harder Tech AI empowered drone companies companies Like cohere that are building large Language models that take you know Months and months and months to train Before there's any you know potential Output at the other end and we you know We think about those really carefully The thing the types of things we're Looking for when we think about Long-term time Horizons are really sort Of what is the wave that's changing in a Society like how can we make kind of Very specific and clear bets on a much Broader Trend rather than necessarily Bets on like particular scientific Advancements and then we really look for Founders who are who would be building This no matter what 100 VCS said the

Like missionary they would be doing this Banging their head against the wall if Nobody gave them a dollar they'd be you Know selling the tires off their car Figuring out how to make this happen and If we see those two things in parallel Uh you know we'll jump in and it might Not be the case that you know unlike Some of our software Investments we'll See Revenue in a year we have to get Really comfortable as a partnership About much longer time Horizons for Monetization and that's where to your Point earlier I think setting those Clear expectations between investor and Founder is really important because then You know I have to go and convince my Entire team to make this bet and I Really need to trust you in order to do That yeah yeah I think a lot of Founders Also forget your you know when you're Given an update to an investor you're Actually they have they have their whole Partnership there's a lot more people And you should be thinking about those Folks as you kind of give an updater but The mega trendy thing you said I think Is really interesting because this sort Of happened for us is you know even Though it took us twice as long which You'd say look the company should be a Lot less valuable because it took twice As long to do but the world kept the Market just went up you know a factor of

10 and so that more than offsets sort of The the fact that it takes longer so if You get the if if you have a very clear Vision of how the world's going to Change even if the technology takes Longer you're likely building something Even more valuable yeah if the Tam is Increasing we're much much more likely To be comfortable with those long-term Timer Right yeah Aaron you mentioned some of Those companies in your portfolio that Can qualify for this long-term bet Um what kind of how long are you looking Here Um I I couldn't I couldn't give you a Specific number I mean it's sort of all Over the place but definitely uh Definitely longer than you know a Traditional SAS cloud-based SAS software Um and often with intermediate Milestones in between which might not Represent might not represent the Realization of the long-term Vision but Our partnership design Partnerships Um you know times to interact with Customers where we're getting real Validation Um in in the in the shorter term before Maybe the full long-term vision is Realized sure so the idea is Um not just structuring deals for the End goal but some of these intermediary Goals does that kind of build

Transparency into the process do you Think it it helps kind of I mean and I Think you know different companies can Think about this different ways but Having this you know clear sign clear Signposts along the way where you can Say We're defining an intermediary Milestone Before maybe we hit our long-term Revenue goal what does that look like Like how can we get comfortable with Some sort of validation in the shorter Term Um and that looks different for lots of Different types of companies Um and that's definitely something we Look for yeah And Gene I want to come back to you uh Earlier we discussed uh some of the Mistakes that you felt like you made Maybe early on you know knowing what you Know now how would you do things Differently Oh I know I told you I'd have ideas for Years but I'm not uh you know I'm I'm Not sure I mean I think I think one of The things is Um recognizing kind of that there is a Lot more Talent out there in the world That can help you with your specific Problem earlier on so I think it took me A while to find sort of the right you Know that that one of the critical Things when doing really long-term

Things is that there are people that can Be so incredibly insightful right and I Think Um on your specific problem and as the Company has grown and matured we've had It become easier to attract those people But I've also recognized the value of Attracting those people whether kind of Independent directors or you know just Advisors for the most part Um and I think a lot of times a Founder Might Get an advisor you know have interaction With them think that it's going to be Valuable turns out not to be valuable Until they go advisors aren't valuable And like maybe that's true five four out Of four out of five times but the sort Of one time it's not true it's it's just A complete game changer for how you Think about your business and and how You approach it so Um I think in retrospect I think we Could have done more of that sooner even If um and just recognizing that like It's about it's just it's a search Process for that I think just like Underscoring that we like we end up Investing in a lot of Engineers that are Leaders and um and you think like oh You're gonna dive down deep and help Them solve their technical challenges Right with our team but the reality is We end up working a lot more on the soft

Spaces right like thinking about you Know working and coaching on team Building thinking about Um communication style how do people Interpret you right like much more Focused on the soft skills which is just So I think counterintuitive when you Think of a place called called the Engine I'm like oh it's actually focused On the soft side of supporting Founders Well and I tell technical founders of All the time right they St you know from Like age six you were trained to be Really good at math and science I I was And you know I think I was pretty good At it and then you you like get into This position of being CEO and like you Maybe you spend 20 of your time thinking About the business side of things and Like if you really zoom out and go That's really screwed up you should be Spending 95 of your time thinking about The stuff that you're trying to learn Right but it's difficult it's foreign It's you're not good at it you hate Being not good at things right you're Used to being a Plus student all the Time so things like retraining your Mindset that you know you've got to Leave like those Legos behind so to Speak like like let like hire people to Do the technical stuff keep an eye on it But then go learn the other pieces Um yeah and I think for it's you know as

We're talking about sort of those Intermediary milestones and things we Look at when we're thinking about Long-term time Horizon companies at Index we look for people that we believe Will be Talent magnets one people who Are really able like extremely Self-aware and able to see Talented people to talent and others and Then really bring them in for the vision And the journey of the company because That long-term belief and building that Strong culture and you know it's a lot Harder to keep people people motivated And sticking around when you know it Could be 10 years or 15 years before There's an exit and so you need that Kind of Storyteller almost like that That like cult Builder type of Personality to attract that kind of Talent and that's a key thing that we Look for when investing in this type of Company and like just on the reverse Side of that which I think is so Interesting it's like we come in in the Pre and the precede and the seed round And so like we see ourselves actually Building that capability it's great that You're looking for it and we're thinking About like how do we put those Characteristics in place so that when That technical founder goes out to pitch They're pitching to you and you're Seeing it thank you

So is there anything else you want to Amend as investors so you know you're Coming at it from a slightly different Perspective but obviously there's things That you've learned over time how does That inform these kind of longer term Bets because this is a different model Than a lot of VCS take right You asking me Um The way we think about it is like is This going to be incredibly impactful And and one metric to just think about Is there are 700 million people who live With all the amenities that you and I Have and climate wise we're doing okay But reality is we have almost eight Billion people on this planet and they All need to live at the with the Amenities that we have and so we look For Investments that are going to have a 10x increase in capability right like Will this development help us as a Community as a society scale from what We have today in this room to everybody On the planet having that in the in on The planet and so I think when you ask Me like what do we look for we look for Like real step change game changing Technologies that are going to benefit Everyone and we think that will drive a Huge Tamp is that something that's Evolved over time or is that something That you and the engine have kind of

Always brought to this space I think we Have always brought that to the space The engine was conceived by MIT and the Conception the realization that they Came to is that they are developing Breakthrough science that has that Capability to have a 10x impact on our Planet but it was not being Commercialized no one was taking those Founders and helping them to support Them to build these into big you know Huge impactful companies and so the Engine doesn't only support MIT it Supports all all founders in the tough Tech space Um but but our feeling has always been Very strongly that it's important to Invest in game-changing companies yeah I Think building up something you said It's um you know this sort of how do you How do you take an extremely smart Scientist and and turn them into uh an Entrepreneur and you know being one step Down the line past you Um that's this is something we've Learned is the difference between a Really smart person and a really smart Person that's going to build a huge Company and it's for some of these is Deeper Tech Investments it's where we Spend the vast majority of our time up Front in setting expectations and really Getting to know the person like do they Care about the tech or do they care

About the impact and do they care about Not only the impact but the commercial Impact like we want people who want to Yes be make really impactful changes to The world and also make a lot of money Doing it so we have to know that our Goals are aligned that you know we're Here to build a 10 Billion Dollar Plus Business and not you know work on a Science project for 10 years so that That getting that sense of those Commercial Ambitions and and Expectations around building a business Is super important for us and I want to Riff on something Milo said too which is The the 10x impact I think one thing That Um the event historical Adventure Community did not understand that a 10x Impact doesn't necessarily mean a 10x Improvement in technology a lot of times It's like a 2X Improvement in something Can 10x them out of Um market share something has and you Know we're so obsessed with sort of 10x Technical metrics in the valley Sometimes I mean I'll I'll tell your Story We pitched an investor early days Um very you know very very well well Known and you know I'm sitting there With the professor co-founder and we're Saying look the battery chemistries we Work on can just about double the Performance of batteries today and

That'll you know have this impact on the World and they're like yeah we like to Invest in like a 10x better battery and Professors like the periodic table of Elements doesn't have a tonic you know They're like yeah but that's still what We're looking for and and I just about Like yeah I mean obviously like they're Not an investor Um and and um and they missed out but You know I think it's that like in some Places understanding the translation Between something being 50 better and Then having dominant market share and Like up 10 20 billion dollar Revenue Opportunity you know like that's some of The technical expertise that you need to Be willing to dig into you know you can Hire it and you know but I think that That's it's the 10x impact that's Important not the sort of 10x better Thing right right one of the cool things Like about the networks that we build is That they have a lot of academic leaders In you know specific areas and those Leaders love to work with these Founders But they also work with us helping us Understand like where's the technology Going who's making breakthroughs like Where should we be looking right so it's It's that like network is very Beneficial yeah So we've got a question from the Audience that I want to get to

Um says Aaron do you think the current VC funding cooldown could lead to fewer Investments in long-term bets and More In kind of short-term startups So you know I actually think right now Is a really good time for investors to Be baking long-term bets especially at The very early stage I think it's it's a It's a time when there's a lot more sort Of rolling up the sleeves from your Investors and work and patients in the Market because there isn't an Expectation that you're going to go Raise another round in in six months Like there might have been for the last Two years so if you're gonna do Something during a hard time you might As well do something hard and like get Something out at the other end Um you know it's it's a it's that said Risk appetites are kind of all over the Place right now with investors we're Seeing Um you know huge variation in the market But for index specifically that we're Really going back to First principles And saying like what is what are the Platform changes of the next decade and How do we back kind of the earliest Stage Founders who who are really Building towards that future and there's A lot of really cool stuff happening and A lot of very technical teams that are Trying to build real products that are

Starting right now and so we're I think It's a fantastic time to be building a Be building a sort of generational Company yeah now both Aaron and Milo do You feel like interest rates and Inflation being the highest they've been In decades is changing some of the Calculus on the Venture Capital side I'm curious what you're seeing early Stage I cannot I can help fine yeah Um I think what we see is that there's an Entire like generation that is Completely committed to solving kind of Really World huge problems and those People are coming out of their postdocs And their phds and they don't really Care about the interest rates or what's Going on like they just want to make a Difference and have an impact and um Yeah so I don't think it doesn't seem to Be swaying our side of the ship at all Um one thing we're seeing is Um really really strong Talent leaving Larger companies because some of the Financial upside for public tech Companies or maybe even late stage tech Companies is sort of vaporized in the Last few months and people are like well I had these golden handcuffs and that Was preventing me from working on what I Really care about and I don't have that Anymore so I'm going to take a risk and I'm going to do something um so actually

At the earliest stage we're seeing a lot More in the you know past few months Like activity really picking up with People doing working on much Bolder Things than I think that they were doing A year ago like really uh you know Taking bigger risks as we get to the Later stage it's a little bit different I think later stage companies are Definitely having a harder time raising Than they were a year or two ago you Know they're raising Flat rounds and and were you know and And that's generally seen by the market As a success right now for later stage Companies Um Capital hasn't dried up but it's Certainly uh slowed down for some later Stage companies so it's a really good Time for people to be thinking about Runway and um actually going back to a Time when you build lean right so from Your perspective are you seeing changes Um in appetite for these sorts of things From LPS Uh that's a very good question Um you know uh LPS like sort of Long-term stability and consistency and They like to understand that your Strategy isn't changing every five Minutes when the tides of the market Change I think that's something our LPS Really value about index and so our Strategy has always been to invest in

Game-changing companies and you know Consistently over the course of our Lifetime we've had some large portion of Those come from more traditional Software and some portion of those come From really exciting new bets that we Saw take off and so I think that Consistency over time is really what Rlps have valued I think one thing that We we're seeing is that as the Technology public stocks come down in Valuation LPS are having to readjust the Balance of their portfolio right across Their public and private sectors the Good thing for us is that on the early Stage side there are not getting Adjusted they're just getting adjusted Kind of like in the mid to later stage And I think that is what's causing kind Of tighter capital in the later stage Private company so now it's basically a Good time to be an early stage startup It's a great time to be an early stage Startup I mean it's it's always a good Time to be a hard tech startup and I Think one of the reasons is that Um the world doesn't change just because It should it changes because someone Goes after something insanely hard and Actually succeeds at it and I think a Lot of these problems actually sit Around for decades until someone sees Them in the right light attacks it with The right technology I think you can

Sort of ask the questions like you know Take take an iconic company like SpaceX Could it have started 10 years before it Started I think the answer is yes right And would it have been if it hadn't Started and you started 10 years later Would have been just as successful over A similar period of time the answer is Yes because these problems when you're In a you know if you're in fintech and Everyone's investing in fintech and the Products are going out in 12 months Right like yeah you have a window of Opportunity that's not the case with Really hard tech your window of Opera Opportunities societally long and Frankly a lot of these problems have Been there for the solving and will Continue to be there for the solving for Decades you know there's it's not like a Picked over set of problems right by Definition right yeah just because Someone's made better rocket doesn't Mean they can't make an even better one Well or the need will still be the need What I mean is that there's actually There's other parts of the of society That need you know huge Solutions right I mean I think like it's a lot harder to Build a rocket company now that SpaceX Exists like you know and they increment To Perfection is much smaller but There's so many parts of our society That you know are so far away from

Efficient right and and they're gated by Someone having a really Innovative Solution and so I think it's always a Good time to start a hard tech company Unlike things that have you know 18-month Cycles there are windows for Those yeah yeah So Gene Sila earned a great place to Work certification for being a welcoming Caring transparent company Um you know you used to work for Elon Musk at Tesla is is that a response to What you saw there Um provocative question Um I I think you know I I've learned a Lot of great things from different Places Um and I think you know a lot of time a Lot of ways your company is shaped by The first 20 or 30 people you hire And so you know the things we were Selecting for were you know exceptional Talent but also sort of folks that want To go the distance and I think like we Have a very long average tenure at Selah In part because of the type of problem We're solving and I think to enable that You sort of need to create a culture Where people want to be for 10 plus Years Um you know I think if you're solving Problems that are more Um Cyclical the same kind of problem you

Know four or five times you know you you You maybe want a different culture to do That uh you know I but I think for us Having a really long duration culture Like science of acknowledge accumulates And like the Insight that a scientist Who's been with us for 10 years can have Literally no one else in the world can Have and so coming back to like solving Really hard problems that sit there for A long time until someone comes up with A solution we're trying to create an Environment where where that knowledge Accumulates those people learn you can't Pass that stuff down in a PowerPoint Right right now Aaron I know you've got Maybe a slightly different perspective You know you said one of your more Provocative thoughts is that you know Teams are either machines or Cults Um and um I'll be honest that doesn't Always sound terribly welcoming Um so like you know where do humans Culture it's very welcoming yeah I don't Know I don't know what the last cult You've visited but if they're not Welcoming they're not cold for long so Where do do people fit in that and how Do you make sure you're not backing the Next Adam Newman It's a that's a really good question so I spent the bulk of my career before Becoming an investor as a engineer Which I would definitely classify as a

Cult and I I loved it like and I you Know I I absolutely worked my ass off And and you're you know Creating this culture where you're Really in the fire you look around the Table and you're like these are my People like I would die for them I'm Like you know going to the ends of the Earth for them and it's you know it's a It's a private company like but it it Had it had that power of kind of Creating a sense of shared mission and Vision Um and uh I think it still has to start From a place of respect Um and a place of shared values Um and the creation of the cult if you Will is Really a capturing of a hard and complex Goal that a group of people want to Reach together and if you're able to Sort of distill that into this sense of Purpose and Mission and belonging you Can you can you know move mountains and Alternatively they're very successful Companies that don't look like that Where you know people have a really Clear sense of Um you know what their goals are from Week to week and where they belong in The org and how things are structured And who they report to and that can also Be a great way to build a company I tend To gravitate a little bit more towards

The cult leaders just from you know my Background and experience yeah yeah Milo The engine does it maybe a little bit Differently and I think you alluded to This before where you're you're taking The scientists who maybe aren't ready to Be cult leaders maybe maybe it doesn't Go that far but um you know maybe they Don't have those uh the soft skills that Would be required to kind of like Engender the sort of following that you Might need as an early stage startup so What does it look like as your training Scientist to become Founders yeah Um first I would say that there are a a Pretty strong number of mentors out There that are technical leaders have Built strong companies much like Gene And surrounding our founders with with People like those who have shown like This can be done you can do this let me Show you how to do this but we also do a Lot of psychology work with them having Them learn about themselves what kind of People they are learn about the Different kinds of people that are out There how do they think how do they Digest information how do you motivate Them to be give you a hundred and ten Percent And so we also do a lot of psychology Work just to dig in and help them Understand themselves and the people Around them and how they're going to

Kind of lead that cult yeah So I want to start to wrap up a little Bit you know my perspective on long-term Investments comes from the climate side My background is environmental science And I write about climate Tech all the Time these are very hard very long Challenges that we face and as I was Sitting down preparing for this I was Thinking about the timeline right we Basically have until 2050 to get to Net Zero that's about 30 years and when We're thinking about these longer time Horizon Investments that's about two Investment Cycles which does not sound Like very much so One question I have is like one what the Hell are other investors doing right not Getting in on this uh and two are there Enough Founders out there Yeah I mean what to the second question is You know the interesting thing I think Is is I don't think it's going to be Solved by a thousand companies doing Something little I think there's going To be a few companies that Um really have outsized impacts and then A lot of companies that have a modest Impact I think you need the tent poles And I think those are so much more Important because they drag everything Along and so I think the question isn't You know the question is do you have the

10 poles if you have the ten poles then Then I think you're going to get a lot Of Tailwinds and I think you know Tesla's clearly a 10 poll uh for the World on this Um and you know from a climate Perspective there's actually You know it's it's not easy but it is Simple there are only three things you Really have to solve you have to Electrify Transportation decarbonize the Grid and uh decarbonize industrial heat Is that it that's it but it's those Three things and so in some ways like You know I think your ten poles could be A half dozen companies Um and I think you know I'm obviously Like a huge Optimist and we're gonna go Solve this and like if no one else shows Up then we'll solve it Um but I think Um you know and so I think it actually It's not as there's not as many bets to Make and I'd rather have a few really Sophisticated investors with really big Checkbooks Um to make those bets than necessarily Like having every VC try to chase this Stuff Yeah Aaron and Milo do you have examples Of who else might be stepping up feel Free to name names yeah I mean I think On the steel and cement side there's Some real

Um breakout leaders in that space Um Boston medals in our portfolio they're Making zero carbon steel it's Unbelievable we're super excited for Them steel counts for six percent of all Carbon emissions globally annually so Resolving what's happening on steel will Be absolutely amazing Um Yeah we also have another portfolio Company Sublime which is decarbonizing Cement cement is also I think it's Five or six percent of all CO2 emissions It's also really big and so just solving Those two big industrial emitters will Be a huge step in the right direction One of the ways we've And we have A number of companies in our portfolio In the climate site is actually Following Talent one of the best ways to To to to to to to judge and evaluate a Company is is the quality of people that Go there and so we look for people who Are making trade-offs in their personal Lives and careers and taking bets on Companies and Founders and spaces and Joining these joining you know these Focal points of the movement and that That's often a lens we use to look at You know which climate companies are and And which areas are really getting a ton Of focus

Um because you know convincing people to Join your company to you know risk their Life and career on your bet is you know Is a huge signal of success so in Addition to you know relying on folks Like you to help on the science side Um and that's something we're seeing you Know more and more in the last two years And I think especially now with the sort Of weakening public markets you know There's a there's an exodus of people Who are looking for meaning value and to Create impact and we're we're following Right along I think I think it goes Beyond just people joining those Companies there are founders I'm friends With a couple who have built Multi-billion dollar software companies Sold them could retire on the beach the Rest of their lives yeah and they're Working like as hard as anyone I know Starting climate companies now and I Think you know it's like follow those You know follow that lead right I think They're you know and second time Founders are Oh statistically a lot more successful Because they don't make the you know the Dumb mistakes people like me made yeah It's a remarkable Trend that we're Seeing well we're just about out of time So I want to thank Gene Aaron and Milo For joining us and thank you all as well Thank you Tim thank you thanks