Blockchain tech is working to combat AI-based deepfakes (w/ Melody Hildebrandt and Mike Blank)

Hey everyone it's Jaclyn melanic welcome To chain reaction a show that unpacks And Dives deep into the latest trends And news breaking things down block by Block for the crypto curious this year We're doing monthly series diving into Different topics and themes in crypto Last month of fds and this month we're Focusing on blockchains integrating AI We're speaking to a number of Founders And startups about how they're looking At the two technologies what are the Best ways to bring AI on chain and the Benefits that are yet to come from it Hope you you Enjoy today we have two guests on Melody Hildebrandt CTO of fox Corporation and Mike blank coo at polygon Labs why these Two companies together well polygon Labs The layer 2 blockchain focused on Scaling ethereum and fox Corporation the Well-known media conglomerate joined Forces in January which is something We'll dive into throughout this episode In Link in the show notes but the tldr Is Fox released verify and open- Source Technical protocol for media companies To register content and Grant usage Rights to AI platforms while also Consumers are able to verify content Through polygon's technology all in all It's basically a way to help tackle the Pro proliferation of deep fakes and if You're lost with everything I just said

Don't worry we'll get into it shortly But given the rise of AI and our March Series Focus on blockchain and AI we Thought this would be a perfect topic to Discuss with these guests with that said Melody and Mike welcome to the show Thanks for having yeah so I briefly Touched on the partnership in the Beginning talked about a few technical Things in there but I would love to know From both of you how did this Partnership come about Melody when did Fox realize that deep fakes and AI were Becoming a problem for news Organizations and then Mike for Non-technical users how can you describe What polygon's blockchain tech is doing To help solve This awesome yeah I think the Relationship with po actually kind of Predates our real tackling of this Specific Manifestation uh or challenge in front Of us we kind of had a initiative a few Years ago to explore blockchain as a Opportunity for thinking about content Distribution um and content financing in Kind of a fresh way we were kind of Bullish on the underlying technical Potential for kind of diversifying like A the the stream of content to a wide Range of Downstream providers and Polygon Uh and fox began to kind of work

Together on that uh problem set I think The moment that it really crystallized Internally at Fox around the challenge Of deep fakes and the challenge just of Also how to think about content Licensing in an age of AI as obviously There's a big debate right now about how Models are trained the inputs into Models how tght content creators are Compensated for their contributions to Those models I think that was really Really chatu P I think was the moment Where the kind of broad Zeitgeist kind Of came together and we realized okay This is not a future problem this is a Today problem and so we were happy to Kind of already have this relationship With polygon like we really kind of Understood the technology and we had This immediate kind of aha moment I Think that we could think about Blockchain provenance as a bit of a just Antidote is maybe um more extreme but Than we need but like it's a bit of like A grounding to thinking about the input Into model question um and how to think About provenance and media kind of in an AI generated World got it okay and then Mike where do You come into this Picture sure I think just to build on What melody was saying both of our Organizations have been at The Cutting Edge or at the Forefront of thinking

About how to use technology in order to Solve uh interesting challenges um Across the media and entertainment space And uh underlying what what Melody's Talked about is what the opportunity That blockchain provides and polygon Technically is building an aggregated Blockchain Network at the scales to the Level of the internet but what what does That mean in this context it's um it Does amongst other things blockchain Helps establish the the veracity of data Or the authenticity of content that uh Is proliferating across the internet and We're seeing today in this age of as you Described Jack this proliferation of Content everyone is a Content producer Today um your your kids your parents you Literally everyone and of of course all The brands out there today are building Content at a pace which we've never seen Uh the likes of in history and so a Blockchain um enables this foundational Layer this technology that enables you To prove the the veracity of that Content and so it's a natural fit for The work that Melody and fox are doing And what we're doing to come together in Order to help um help provide some some Comfort and Trust in the market place About the content that people are Consuming right and since the launch at The beginning of the year how has it Been like what have been some wins for

Verify or challenges that it's still Facing we've been really excited about The reception that it's a you know a Market driven solution to the problem I Think as we kind of look at this this Question of you know again how are Content creators compensated by large Language model by AI companies and You're seeing these kind of extremes Emerge there's obviously very public Lawsuit That are going to play out in the courts And then there's also these kind of all You can eat licensing deals um where Content creators are providing kind of Realtime streams of all their content to AI companies for both training models as Well as for more retrieval based Workflows and and then there's obviously A debate on the hill and with Legislation about how should you the Government potentially step in and help Navigate this environment I think what We were trying to put out there with Verify is kind of a market based Solution to say you know this is the Legitimate access point for our content You know we want to play in this space We're generally AI Optimist at Fox we think there's a like incredible Opportunity for us to be you know part And not only survive but Thrive kind of In this age of AI but there are certain Guardrails around the content that we

Need to impose if we kind of want to Continue to have investment in Journalism investment in original Content all these Primitives that you Care about um there needs to be Guardrails and compensation and so I Think the the number one thing that's Been very validating to us I think is That as we talked to a large number of Publishers that they want to impose These guard rails on their content most Publishers do want to participate in This ecosystem but they don't want to Sign away all their crown jewels for a Lumpsum today you know where you really Don't know it's a little too early I Think to be signing a way to Value all Your content in the age of AI right now When there's so much to play out so how Can you impose some of these technical Guard rails that allow you to get ahead Of that and maintain some optionality in The future so I think we've had a great Reception from the publisher community And we've had a great reception from I Think the government regulatory Community that again would rather see a Market driven solution emerge than Require kind of a major heavy-handed Government Intervention which as we know You know take a long time to play out Anyway U but where there also there's There real debates about how much you You want to potentially um you know in

Any way impose upon the the great Innovations that can happen from happen From AI but this is going to move so Fast you really need Solutions today so I think those are kind of the two the Two big validations that we've found so Far I think there's like the people that Want to get involved and you know get Into this to protect you know their Creators their content Etc like you Mentioned but what will it take to get Them on board fully while still Understanding that they can quote Unquote protect their content as you Mentioned like do you see a future where More news Outlets media companies Etc Will integrate technology like this or Is it going to be a slower process than Kind of the proliferation of AI already Has been like accelerated on that point But it might be slow on other Fronts I'm pretty bullish it's going to Move fast now uh because of the Alternative I think you know we kind of View this in a way as kind like a Spotify moment or an apple music moment Right where you begin to have the legal Way to consume content established which Kind of begins to put in Stark relief The alternative methods of scanning the Internet and scraping content and you Know models had to get to where they Were today like through whatever means Possible but I think now that we're all

Looking at this at this um at the Environment and realizing that the Current models that really risk um Undermining all the economics of the Internet that Publishers rely upon to Fund their operations we need to carve a Different way so every publisher is Looking at this um and and thinking About how do they want to participate And and some are saying we we want out Or we don't want to participate but I Think that's a minority view um but very Few want this all you can eat model Either uh because they just know you're You're going to get undervalued today if You try to sign like a like a bulk deal For all your content at once which is so Much of what the AI companies want to Get companies to sign right now are These kinds of deals so we think there's I I think there's going to be um like Pretty fast movement around this but we Kind of do need to begin to coales a Little bit I think if we want to seize The moment so I I see a bit of urgency Around it because again it's it's it's Beneficial to the AI companies as well I Think to be able to have we validated This with in many discussions to have The idea of a legitimate access point With a common format that allows them to Ingest from thousands of Publishers you Know with one technology um as opposed To potentially to do bespoke

Integrations with every Creator on the Planet which might be technically Difficult so we think there's a real Opportunity to coales now around that Standard but it's you know it's going to Take I think a few big moves from a Bunch of Publishers and I I guess I would I would Offer that I think there's a ground Swell of demand as well it's it's not Just that I think both of us believe That it's in the in in a Brand's best Interest to uh engender more trust in The content that they're delivering but From an enduser perspective Um every day I think there is more and More concern uh from actual end user Consumers about the content that they're Consuming and whether they can trust That content or not and so uh if Governments don't do it then um then I Think we and I I think as Melody already Suggested it's it's it's better if There's a market driven alternative here That we can um help end user consumers Understand what they consuming is is Valid and authentic uh and even today we Saw news and I know this will be Probably old news by the time this gets Shown to the public but um the uh the um Dut is it the duchess today of of uh That presented a picture which was Proven to be edited and now people are Questioning whether that yeah Princess K

Whether that whether that content was Actually real or not why were why was She editing that that photo and that's That is such a mundane thing right it Was just a picture of her and her and Her children but there are very real Things that are happening across the Internet today that that need to be Verified and so as end user consumers I Think we have vested interest in in Pushing Brands um as well to uh to to Participate in this regard so that we Can all feel uh as though that the world That we're consuming is a real one what Else do you two think needs to be done To improve the relationship and trust With audiences is as AI continues to Grow Mikey pointed out the cape Middleton situation that was definitely The Talk of the Town over the weekend Into Monday and we're recording this on Monday um and honestly this episode will Go out on Thursday so maybe by then People have moved on but there's always A situation where an AI generated thing Or something is up in the air where People are a little confused about it or They're not 100% sure that it's Legitimate how do you see blockchains Playing a role in kind of verifying that Legitimacy and then maybe Melody you Could talk to how verify also goes that Route sure yeah there are I think there Are there are three um three things that

Blockchains can do and maybe a fourth Which is more of an economic uh more Economic in in in nature but there are Three things that blockchains can do to To help begin to solve this problem um The first is as Melody already described Dat data Providence um one of the key Benefits of blockchain technology is the Ability to provide unparallel data Providence and storing data on Blockchains can ensure the Integrity of That data um increasing trust and Transparency associated with it AI Models that leverage large data assets Um can increase transparency and trust With data Providence Solutions enabled By blockchains that's one very important Component and I when we think about um The data that's used to train the models That that enable AI like how does one Know that the the data models themselves Were validly created and authentic in Themselves and not not poisoned in some Way so this is one area that that Blockchains can help provide a very Interesting solution uh a second would Be zero knowledge attestations and we Call that ZK and what that effectively Means is that you know polygon and Others have built um and invested in Breakthroughs and ZK technology that Allow uh users and applications to make Privacy safe attestations that verify Data and contribute to data that's used

In AI models and so um maybe said more Simply um imagine a uh a data model or An AI model that was created for which That needs to be presented to the that That the output of that model needs to Be needs to be presented to the public But the the data model itself um doesn't The the the entity that created that Data model has a ve vested interest in Preserving the privacy of it and so Think about the Department of Defense or Other organizations that have um very Specific use cases around specific Privacy model data models that need to Be private we can now do that Blockchains can now support that Endeavor and the third would be Authenticity verification um blockchains Can help Val validate the authenticity Of images and text and video and other Types other types of media which here to For couldn't be done um and that can be Cryptographically verified to To validate the authenticity of that Content to prove that it's valid in its Creation it hasn't been modified or that It has been modified because I think Again and users want to know if that Thing was created is it in its original Form or was it something that was Modified at some point thereafter uh That's equally important for end user Consumers to understand as well so those Are three areas that are that are

Enabled by blockchain and the fourth as As I said at the outset which may be More uh of an economic Benefit is that um blockchain provides Digital property rights right so when Content is created today how does one Know who created that and whether they Should be uh attributed with the Creation of that content and when you Put that content on chain you can now Validate that that content was created By a certain individual or brand or Whatever and then they can be Economically rewarded for that activity So those are the the four ways in which In which blockchains can help support um Again the the validity or the Verification of content lives across the Proliferation of this content across the Internet how accessible are those four Things though like let's say it could be Anyone from a news organization to Someone who's just posting a Tik Tok Maybe they're like influencer how Accessible is it for them to access These things in order to protect their IP and Etc I think this is a good question for Melody I think because this is what Exactly what verifi is trying to Do yeah think that that is right I mean We we approach this from like a fox Perspective but I think with the Hypothesis that it's relevant for not

Only other news media brands of our size But also for the really diverse set Information ecosystem today from Substack writers to Tik talk influencers To basically anyone who is an Intermediary in some way between the Public and like the the information Environment and one of the kind of core Hypotheses I think we have is that in an Age of AI generated media right it's Going to be the information space is Going to the Zone will be flooded right And it's not necessarily always with you Malicious manipulation but there's still Going to be it's G be very difficult I Think to to and not really fair to Impose upon every consumer that they're Going have to validate um you know every Piece of information themselves from First principles right instead I think The um you know increasingly I think Brands will be important in the age of AI the import of Brands is going to rise Because consumers are going to rely on Those Brands to help them navigate this Information space and again that brand Could be a fox or it could be a substack Writer and it a really diverse uh type Here and so but we wanted to put out Essentially open source technology the Whole reason we open sourced it was to Really think about adoption and the Reason we chose a technology like Polygon was to make it very low cost so

That you can have a um anyone who's Potentially who's putting out Information into that space you know can Take advantage of some of these Primitives that Michael discussed um to Be able to both protect their content And also to I think open up very Interesting monetization opportunities Um which Michael began to allude to that That can be done kind of with this Original ownership you know this moment Where you can say I'm signing on chain This piece of content originated with me Um I think that really unlocks a lot of Economic Opportunity Downstream but Fundamentally we're trying to allow a Publisher to be able to put out a piece Of content so that a consumer can then Say okay I trust Fox did this piece of Content actually come from Fox and was It not manipulated from when they Publish it and that's the core the core Things we're trying to solve with verify You could think about AI manipulation or How to tackle that problem in a few Different ways I think there's a lot of People are tackling it from like the Question like what is AI generated or Was this AI manipulated I think the Other way to think about it is was it Not tampered with from the moment it was Published and so that's the and that's Where we can like rely on these Cryptographic approaches to with very

High confidence be able to say okay this Image was signed by Fox on this date it Was signed within we call the content Graph which is a smart contract on chain Which essentially binds an image to the Headline to the text we think that Context really matters so much of the Information you know uh misinformation Space right now is actually just images Being taken out of context you leave Aside the fact that it's you know AI Generated but so you have a Content Graph Fox publishes piece of content This these four Images were associated With this article headline this article Text so now if a user is on Twitter and They see an image and they say fox Reports X and there's an image there They can say wait did fox actually Report that is that a real image from Gaza is that a real image from Saudi Arabia wherever the the actual you know Allegation is or the news is meant to Take place and I think what we see just We can to spend some time on Twitter About what people say fox published um These are things we've never said right And there's images that are being Attributed to us um inappropriately and So now we think okay we're empowering Users like consumers with the tools to Actually be able to ask the question did Fox Say this or not like right now they Before verify they really didn't have

The ability to ask that question but now You can go to verify. Fox you can like Drag and drop an image like yes this Perfectly matches this was not tampered With and by the way Fox published this Article in this image on this time in This context and that so we we did that For Fox we thought it was important for Us to go public with at first we signed Our first piece of content last August Which was actually the what we consider The beginning of the election season um Which was the first day of the first Republican debate on Fox um we and we Were thinking about the elections you Know as one of our North Stars so but You know but now A C suback writer could Do the same thing and it's like it Allows I think any publisher larger or Small to be able to put that Line in the Sand this is my piece of content I stand Behind it and then consumers can say Well if I trust that person then I can I Can inherit essentially the trust and And trust that underlying Asset go ahead M say I'll just add one Thing I think I think ultimately it'll Be in the in the Brand's best interest Uh to Proactively indicate that they are part Of verify or um and and to to indicate To to their consumer that they are a Trustworthy uh producer of content I Mean I think it will be we've seen this

In other instances in other areas of the Internet where um it's it's in the Interest of a brand and that brand could Be as large as fox or as small as the Individual content creator on Tik Tok Who will say that I am part of this uh Solution because now you can trust the What I'm doing is actually is actually Valid so I think today it's it's Increasingly becoming through uh Services like verifi it will be Increasingly um it'll be simpler for end Users to understand where they're Receiving their content from and whether That's actually valid or verified in Some way and it'll be the Brand's Ben Interestes to proactively publish that To indicate that to their end user that They're actually part of the same Solution right what is Brand's demand For this is what is the response been Like since launching this are there Hesitations are people kind of coming And saying Help where does it Stand from a publisher perspective yeah I think you know the there's kind of Again we think of this as a solving a Consumer problem which is this Verification but also this business Problem about how our content is how We're being compensated for our content In these Downstream use cases and and we Really think this solves both problems And I'll be honest I think the the one

That feels more timely is this business Problem right that we kind of began with Which is how our uh large language model Providers compensating Publishers for Their content um and how can they you Know move from again a Napster model of Taking the content to a verified model Of taking content again that Publishers Stand behind and and so that piece of it Feels very um pressing I think from a Publisher community and then everyone Wants to do something about deep fakes I Think there's um there's still a lot of Technical debate about what the right Approach is we've obviously put a Line In the Sand around this Prov provenance Is the way to approach it um and there's Some complimentary initiatives too that Even go further Upstream than us that Start say at the camera collection right And all the way from how a camera like Takes an image and then it goes through Photoshop and up we consider that all Really interesting metadata to include In the protocol but we've kind of we've Kind of started this moment of a Publisher signs a piece of content and That means something that means a Publisher is standing behind this Whatever that whatever that means to Them that from us that means we have a Newsroom we have you know units that um You know do research and put that out if You're a subect writer again you have a

Different process but when you put out a Piece of content you're standing behind It um and that's a little scary I think You know you put it on chain it's not Tamper it's tamper proof and that's one Of the Fundamental uh features of the system Right is that it can't be modified but It's also you know it's a little scary For news organization you kind of put Out there um this this record um but Generally the reception has been quite Good I think um it's it's been again it It it it's meant today you can like I Can see how this can solve my business Problem where I can actually put out There and say I own this content so if It's been taken by the other companies Like here's a record a tamperproof Record that I originated it and that Means a Lot Mike what has it been like for you Yeah we see uh we've seen interest from Um every facet of content Creator today and I think it even uh Accelerated with the announcement of Verify we've uh and this is as as we've Talked about this is large and small Brands alike um and when I say small Brands I mean every individual who Creates content on the Internet is Thinking about how they uh re you know How that content is attributed to them In a provable way and when we think

About it the L from the large brand Perspective is how do they how do they Demonstrate themselves uh to the world As having content that they have Produced and owned and can and can Validate the fact that they produce and Own that content and that as Melody said It wasn't tampered with so we see uh we See uh every potential you know Combination of content creator uh Thinking about how to solve this problem And uh when they come to us we redirect Them over to Melody um to think about How to best integrate into their Solution and as as she said there are Other uh Upstream Solutions like the c2p With which is a a a standard for Establishing the veracity of content at The at the hardware level where um that Which which complements what what Melody's uh solution is is trying to Create and I think we're getting to a Place where um whether it be the picture That's produced from the camera or the Brand that is creating text video and Audio content um and distributing that Through whatever Channel um those two Worlds are coming together to uh to Deliver this I think the world that We're looking to see which is one that We can trust so um yes we see uh we see Every facet of of content creator Looking for Solutions today um and They're uh starting to rapidly adopt

Looking to the Future do you both think That articles photographs videos Creators Etc are going to become more Secure as Technologies like this launch And proliferate or will the risk of deep Fakes and imposters Technology also grow At the same rate and still have the Potential to harm C cons consumers Basically I my hypothesis would be that You know most of the information space Is not going to be verified right you're Going to have you know proliferation of Content and the content is obviously Getting extremely good um and a AI Generated content is extremely Compelling um I think average consumers Or even non average consumers people who Spend time in this space have a hard Time telling what's real and what's not Um so that's going to get really really Good and it already is really good it's Just going to get better um and there's Going to be these questions I think if Things just as we see today are already Out of context you know you just take Images out of context and to advance a Certain narrative um and people are you Know out there trying to maliciously Push narratives all the time um so I Think that that's kind of the headwinds That we as a you know as an industry are Facing and like well what is the Countervailing energy that we can put Forward there which I think is this um

This sense of content that Publishers Again I mean that in like the really Most diverse way possible stand behind Content and then I think as we think About some of these aggregators it Becomes that's where you're going to see The problem at scale so if like the Aggregators like a large language model Are consuming verified content then you Can imagine like the mods are going to Be trained on real data that you know Organizations are willing to stand Behind um and that's where I think You'll really get the benefits Downstream you you know whereas if Models continue to be trained on just The internet and the internet is Increasingly AI generated you can kind Of see how that becomes a bit of a death Spiral I think of quality um where You're kind of training on on AI Generated stuff which is training on AI You know it's just you can really see it Going in a quite dystopian way so I Think it's really important for us to Put forward this kind of like Alternative path of content that you Know again a wide variety of Institutions are standing behind which Which might being there's still like a Lot of difference of opinion obviously It's not meant to be like there's going To be the true Source or the one truth Of content that which is I think uh um

Not feasible or really what anyone's Asking for here it's rather in a diverse Information ecosystem how can you allow Organizations that are actually willing To put their name behind something and Have that stamp um of their are proud to Put their name behind pieces of content In the broadest way possible put that Into the information ecosystem and then Allow AI gener Technologies to actually train upon that Content um which I think that's where You really begin to see the scale um Into the future and I think the Alternatives could be a little bit Bleak Mike what are your thoughts on That um I share the sentiment um I I View this somewhat cynically in the in In in the sense that I think there are a Lot of Bad actors out there who are Trying to Subvert um the uh subvert truth and uh And we see this happening every single Day all the time and I think AI enables That to happen at scale at a scale which We've never seen and so um my cynicism Though I think is met with um or my Skepticism perhaps is met with uh what What we're seeing at what we're talking About here today which is um the the Opportunity that technologies that we're Talking about will help solve this Problem and I think Melody's right that The vast majority of content on the uh

That that consumers are are are Receiving that where're that they're Being bombarded with will likely not be Verified and they're going to have a Very difficult time assessing whether That content is something that they Should rely upon or not but increasingly So and I think we were talking about This earlier I think it's going to be in A vested interest of Brands large and Small to establish that what they're Delivering is actually real uh or as Real as they can prove it to be and so I I think consumers will demand it I think Brands will require I think big Tech will be uh will be some Be forced into a position where they're Going to have they're going to have to Adopt some standards um otherwise the Government will get more deeply involved In setting those standards for them and We know that big Tech doesn't like that So I think we have a multi-sided Marketplace here of Brands large Brands Small Consumers uh the government or Governments globally and um and this Technology that all comes together in Order to create an environment where we Actually can solve this problem at some Level of scale I think we have to be Diligent I think the technology will Continue to improve that allows us to Scale this to the size of the internet I

Think one of the big challenges from a Blockchain perspective is um the vast Amount of content that's being created Is is uh I think is unfathomable and I Think it's it's uh being generated at a Pace at which like we said we've never Seen and will continue to be generated Even more rapidly as AI becomes uh more Capable and that's how happening at a Pace that we also haven't seen before so I think we all have to work together in Order to ensure that the um the Technological environment that we're Creating enables the scale um to um to Solve this problem at a at a pace at Which again the end user consumer can Can uh can effectively consume from a User uh perspective it has to be one That's simple and um it has to be one That can uh and ultimately give people The level of trust that they Desiring Without the the effort required for them To to do the work themselves and I think Again what verifi is doing is will help Do that as other Solutions will as Well aside from Brand specifically which Areas of content or the internet do you Both think are the most susceptible to Harm right now and like are in dire need Of a technology like This I me I think in the election season People are you know very much eyes on The news um on on news media um and I Think particular you know obviously the

Complex International environment now People trying to navigate what's Happening on the ground in these Global Conflicts images coming out of those Environments how are they been Potentially validated by news media Organizations or not I think That's is it feels like the most timely Thing but I've SE here in La like I Think in Hollywood there's obviously Massive considerations also just for Talent how their name and like their Likeness is being represented you know Whether there's been like who has Consent um in what circumstance or to Use underlying content to create new Content so these I these issues are all Being Navigated um in real time I think in News where we're seeing it already Happen at such scale the Manipulation um but I think what general Anything with talent and content I think Is a little bit behind but everyone can See where it's going Right now and how are you know again who Has who has the what consent rights um And and how do takedowns work how do how Do you adjudicate potential concerns um I think is like a very active area of Like Technical and legal exploration I'd Say every type of content is susceptible Today and and news is at the Forefront There's no question the news is at the

Forefront we all rely on the news what Whatever we describe as News Today news Can come from boock of news can come From the armchair journalist and Um every every piece of content is Susceptible to manipulation and um hence I think as we enter into this Presidential cycle um and we're seeing And we live in a global environment Where we're all receiving news from Everywhere we're bombarded with it and Uh and and hence I think that is uh a Primary place to Start yeah as the us elections are Coming up in the fall the major ones Obviously we have elections going on Right now what other ways do you to see Blockchain and AI as complimentary Technologies to one another in combating Misinformation especially during Election Season well one thing Meg and I talked About I think is that um I mean there's Like the by signing something on chain Again it's you can't un you can't delete That right like you've made you put a Line you put a piece of information out There you've signed it I think it has This potential to really establish this Accountability I think which I think is Very interesting as you think about a Long tale of U brand new brands right That are trying to build reputation um And so if you're a substack writer right

And you're signing on chain like all These assertions over time there's Really a track record to evaluate you Again you can't just be deleting the Tweets that didn't pan out the way you Wanted or that you didn't do sufficient Research around right like there is that Record so I think that's another Interesting feuture of of onchain Provenance in this information landscape To really allow again emergent Brands um To be able to actually have like a Record to be evaluated against and given That the the technolog is open sourced I Think we're going to see some really Interesting applications in terms of how It's used um we can't predict I think at This point how far the the technology Will be used in order to order to solve These kinds of problems that we're Talking about here today so um I think What Melody just described this idea of On onchain Truth or onchain the Provability of something onchain which Cannot then be Manipulated perhaps will change behavior In and of itself in ways that we haven't Yet discovered um you know if you can't As as M said if you can't delete the Tweet um maybe you'll be more thoughtful About what you write it's possible we Can only hope yeah we're Optimist Mike Yeah know I T you know I said I was I Was a cynic and a skeptic but I'm I'm

Also optimistic about um hopefully about Humanity that uh we can all be better And and ultimately I think what we've You know again I'll go back to my sort Of my my skeptical cynical side what What um anonymity has enabled on the Internet is that people can say anything Anytime anywhere about anyone in any way Um it's almost like we we've um we've Unfettered uh an individual's Responsibility to the world because you Can do it with a a veil right a cloak um Of uh of privacy that you people don't Know who you are and so you can do Anything you want and uh there's a Social contract out there where there There should be a social contract where You you can't just say anything you want At any time in any way that's provably Untrue and um I think again what I think What blockchain is is will enable Ultimately is perhaps that maybe a a re A resurrection of a of a social contract Um where maybe you can prove that Someone said something that was real or True um or can be proved that it wasn't Real or true and uh and and my hope is That if that's the case then then those Who are trust trust will will be more Thoughtful about what they say and what They do um because it has such Significant impact on all of us right we Are a global Community uh and and what Something said on one side of the world

Impact something that happens on the Other side of the world um or something In said in my community amongst my small Group can impact others within my small Group and I so I'm hopeful that uh that Through technology and through uh maybe A resurrection of a social contract that Can be delivered through the Technologies that we're delivering maybe We can make the world a better place and Ultimately That's My Hope yeah amazing I Would love if we could end this on a Note from you two about a piece of Advice for our listeners regarding the Whole conversation we had what would be Something you tell them to do whether It's protecting themselves not posting Maybe the worst things online or Something Else Melody go for it well I got one sof Interested thing which is I love we you Know we're opening for feedback um kind Of on our approach and what we put out There and really kind of hoping to um Bring on a community of Builders we Heard from developers like really Interesting ideas for applications to Build on the protocol from you know a Browser extension that could like Superimpose you know whether we find you Know uh confirmation you know on the Protocol for images you see online Etc So verify is kind of where you Can find it and we have our whole GitHub

Repose out there and our documentation And so yeah I'd love to hear feedback From the community um or hear from Builders who are interested in Potentially extending the technology or Want new features on the technology um And I guess the other thing would be um Yeah just think there's to experiment With some of these technologies that are Out there now again I verified. Fox it's Kind of one application built on the Protocol right now you can actually take Images you see attributed to Fox like See if their matches kind of interrogate That content graph um I think it's the Kind of maybe new norms for Consumer Behavior um that you know we might you Know hope to see and I think Mike's Right like you know we kind of is it a Be a norm change a behavior change a Little bit that all of us are going to Have to participate in and how much is Reasonable to expect of a consumer um or Not so we're kind of like navigating That and really would love to hear Feedback great Mike and um on on my side I'd say from a from a consumer Perspective My Hope Is that consumers Demand this and I I think if if if they Do uh then then what we're creating here Will uh become even more prominent in in In this in this new envir in this new Technological age that we're finding Ourselves in and we can help solve that

Problem for them if they don't demand it Um then it's less likely to be solved And I think again it's in our best Interest to have big Brands participate Um so that we can we can prove the world To be one that we understand and Trust So I I would say the first piece of Advice first piece of advice would be Demand it demand it demand from from Your Brands um that uh that the content That they're delivering to you is Something that you can rely upon um from A from a polygon perspective I'd say we Are Always interested in supporting builders In finding novel solutions to Interesting problems and the Relationship between Ai and blockchain Is one that is coming to the four uh There's so many facets of this uh of This in this environment that that the Opportunities are abound and and so for Those Builders out there who are looking To solve novel problems in the AI space Um and they believe that blockchain can Be a uh a supporter of that we would Love to hear from you and and please Reach out to us Awesome all right Melody and Mike thank You so much for coming on today was Absolute pleasure thank you thank [Music] You


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