AI that actually makes your job easier Arvind Jain from Glean

How many times have you tried to search For HR answers at work only to find out That you don't have access to what you Need and that no one knows where to find It well imagine a world where your Company has a custom chat GPT that you Could ask and that would pull up Anything you need to Know you're listening to found Tech Crunches podcast that brings you the Stories behind the startups and today We're talking to Arvin Jane the founder And CEO of glean an AI powerered work Assistant that connects and understands All your Enterprise knowledge I'm Becca Scac and here to talk about how to Access your internal information in the Cloud is my fabulous co-host Dominic Madori Davis and of course before we Jump into the conversation we have our Two truths in a lie so listen carefully To see which one of these statements Isn't true is that he got the idea for Glean from a paino at rubric that he had Zero problems finding funders for glean Or that llms have been an integral part Of Enterprise solutions for more years Than you'd like to think H definitely Sounds like the basis for a really Interesting conversation but before we Get to it a quick note that we would Love if you could rate and review the Show wherever you are currently Listening to it already that is super

Helpful for feedback for us on our end And we would be very grateful for it but Without further Ado here's our Conversation with Arvin well hey Arvin how's it going it's Going good how about you hanging in There excited to have you on the show Today today so why don't we Dive Right In why don't you tell us a little bit About glean yeah so glean is a 5-year-old company you know think of Glean like uh Google or chat GPD but Inside your Enterprise so it's a search Engine it's an AI assistant clean Connects with all of your company's Information and data that lives in like Many different systems like slack or Google drive or Salesforce and then it Actually gives your employees one place Where they can go and ask any questions And G is going to answer those questions For them using your compy knowledge and That's such an interesting concept Because I know I've worked at many Different places where their approach to The backend system how you could find Like you said like answers to questions You'd have about internal things has Been so varied some places it's a Google Doc that's it if it's not in there you Have to ask someone other places it's Like a whole sprawling type of thing so It's clearly been a problem but why did You get interested in solving this to

Begin with well I mean this is a problem That I've actually faced my entire work Career and so has actually most of the People at glean but the Catalyst for This was you know before glean I was Doing another startup called rubric Which we started in 2014 and we grew you Know quite quickly in rubric in four Years we were actually I think more than 1,000 people but when as we grew like You know we actually saw that the Productivity inside the company did not Catch up with it in fact there was a Year when we grew our engineering tee Three times but the number of lines of Code we wrote were you know actually Remain the same so prod was taking a big Hit so I was curious like we know we did A pulse survey wanted to actually see Like what's coming in the way of people Like getting great work done it was Actually very Illuminating the survey Our annual pul survey and one of the Questions there was do you have the Information that you need to do your Work and that was actually the lowest Scoring question for us in the survey Like everybody was complaining that I Cannot find anything in this company I Don't know where to go look for things I Don't know who to go and ask for help And I was not surprised cuz you like Know we we were born in this modern era Like at rubric we used more than 200

Different cloud-based SAS applications Our knowledge was all over the place and In fact I couldn't find anything myself So we tried to solve that problem you Know my background you know before Starting rubric I was actually search Engineer at Google for over a decade so When people you know come and tell me That you know I can't find things you Know like my first instinct is that oh Like yeah we should have a search engine You know that actually connects with all Of our compy knowledge and so tried to Actually go and buy one and the process Of trying to figure out like what we Could buy we realize that there's no Product in the market that actually Connects with all of your are hundreds Of different cloudbased SI applications And gives a Google like search Experience or all of that data so that That was sort of the catalyst so we ran Into the problem you know and it was Actually quite surprising to me like a Problem that every single person who Works in every single company faces and Yet there's no product to buy like was Quite odd and you know it got me excited To actually go and start GLE yeah I'm Curious did you consider just like Building this in rubric just like for Rubric or when you started to realize This were you instantly like well this Should be its separate company because

Then rubric and Beyond can use it like What was your thought process once you Saw the results from the survey and we Like we need to do something about this And sort of figuring out how to approach This well well the first instinct was Just to buy the product like you know we Were busy building our company like it Was not on my mind to actually go and Start one more company but interestingly You know there was some synergies Between the rubric product and this Problem of search because so rubric is a Company where we actually connect with All of Enterprise data and bring that Data in one place but for the purposes Of keeping it safe our core product was Actually bringing all Enterprise data in One place so then I thought that hey Like you know for search we have to do The same thing and we've already done it All I need to do is now make that data Searchable so like maybe maybe we can Actually have a second product like you Know inside rubric that we'll of course You know solve our own problem in our Company but we'll actually have one more Product a big massive Revenue line so That was my initial thought that maybe I Should do it you know inside rot brick But then as we dug deeper it sort of Like you know that like I'm a technical Person so like you know I'm sort of Naive like and I say like oh this great

Technical Synergy we should do this Second product totally right but then we Think about business you know turned out That like you know our sellers they had No idea like you know how they would Sell a product like this that's a Different domain this is a different Domain and also like you know we were we Were growing fast we were successful Business but we were actually at a very Very low market share and so there so Much to do like you know on our Cod Products so we couldn't distract our Company so that's when I sort of start To feel like you know maybe it makes Sense to do it separately what was it Like making the decision to leave rubric I know I've just spent quite some time Covering Rubik's recent IPO the compan Has continued to do well continued to Grow since you left and it sounds like Of course you were there from the Beginning and then through such a Heightened period of scale and expansion What was it like being like okay I've Built this to this point it's still Going up and to the right but I have so Much conviction on this other idea that I am going to step away like what was it Like actually making that decision I Think it was easy for me easy in one Sense that I fundamentally get excited By technical problems and solving them And so for me this was super exciting

Like I know I've search is a problem That I absolutely love cuz it's sort of Like you're building magic for your Users just imagine this like you know You can come to gleen and you can ask Any question that you have or not just Ask question you can actually give it Any task that you want to do and now Green is actually going to you know use All of your company's knowledge and Actually figure out like you know how to Answer that question or solve that task For you it's actually promising Something that like no individual in the Company can promise to you is is Magic And so of to solve that problem like you Know it's so challenging but it's also So much sort of rewarding for an Engineer so that's sort of the inherent Love like know I was just super excited So like you know that's the overriding Emotion like you know that I'm going With so like I really really want to do It but of course it was actually Difficult because I started rubric as Well and a lot of people in the company There you know they started that Journey With me and I I didn't want to abandon It so so I thought you know I I was Thoughtful about it like you know we Went and first like you know hired Somebody who was better than me to Actually run the engineering team that Was my role there at rubric at you know

We did a long transition where I Actually spent like I didn't really Leave rubric immediately like I started Working on gleen but I was actually Still sort of you know ramping down Smoothly and that was the process you Know that we went through but it was Difficult in that sense well I mean I Guess I always find it difficult to Leave you know any place that I at yeah That's yeah and I imagine fundraising For glean was actually quite easy for You wasn't it yeah fundraising was uh Okay I think this actually interesting Like not super easy yes I had the Benefit of being a Founder already with Company that was succeeding but at the Same time the problem that I wanted to Solve I don't think anybody else wanted To solve Enterprise search is such a Like a dead space and it's a graveyard Like no company ever succeeded so I Shared you know interesting stories I I Had investors who came and told me that Like look I'm writing a check here like I want to back you but you just don't do Enterprise search to anything else you Know I'm okay with it so so there's a Bit of challenge you know convincing People that this problem was worth Solving the one that I wanted to work on Why do you think I know you mentioned That people weren't super interested in The space but why do you think that is

Cuz I know like for me personally just As an employee at company like this is An issue that sounds like you had the Same experience drives me nuts drives me Nuts when I know the answer is there and I cannot find it and because it's an Internal thing like you are confined to Where you can look you can't just hop on Google and search for it because it's of Course not going to come up and so like Why was there that hesitation about this Category or maybe that's just I'm just So enraged by this problem myself that I Don't get how other people wouldn't be Yeah no no you're you're absolutely Right if you ask any individual they Would actually tell you well this is Such a big problem for them like Constantly causes them frustration Everybody that I talk to as an Individual nobody has ever told me that This is not a problem for them that this Is not something that actually takes a Lot of time away from you know their Work and they would love to have a great Product so that was there but when you Go and talk to investors they're more Sophisticated they actually look at the History of companies in search they look At what happened to them and yes they All failed and there are reasons why This is actually a hard product I know There's so many difficulties if you Think about search the number one there

Were no budgets for this category the Markets like how are you going to Actually get people to pay for it number Two people actually always thought of This was sort of like a vitamin not a Painkiller you know everybody would Actually come and tell you that yes I Know it's hard for people to find things But you know things are working fine Like you know we sort of progressing you Know I'm sure I can live without it I've Been living without it for a while and Like I've got other important forms to Work on and so you don't have a Painkiller and if you don't have a Painkiller you can't build a successful Startup so there were like you know Those legitimate you know arguments Against why people were sort of Reluctant because you know like often Times you look for past successes to Sort of you know to actually make future Investments so those are some of the Reasons why there was a doubt in this Market category in fact I think for for Many many years there's no Venture Investment in this space that's how bad This Spas was from a VC investment Perspective I think those are some of The reasons but I think for me like you Know it didn't matter it didn't matter Cuz ultimately when everybody that you Know struggles with this problem there's Got to be solution and we were ready to

Actually jump and build that and one Thing I wanted to ask you about is Because when you guys started the Company back in 2019 obviously the Venture space has changed a lot in the Last 5 years how people think about AI Because I know you guys are big on Bringing I know you mentioned earlier Like the AI work assistant piece of this As well what was it like starting the Company in 2019 like and watching Interest in the space you're building And grow interest in AI grow like There's just such a different feeling Around stuff like this especially Enterprise software now than there was In 2019 and how has the company been Able to tap into that how has that Impacted you guys how have youve been Able to let the changing market Conditions around these things work to Your advantage yeah that's a long Question I give you a long answer for it Sorry that's like five questions yeah so But I think from a journey perspective When we started we had a very clear Mission we're building a Google for People in their work lives and so this Is a really good search over all of a Company knowledge and one of the Interesting things is that llms were Actually already in the market by that Time not everybody knew about them but People who worked on search they knew

About language models because the Language models originally were built in Google to make Google search better so We knew about them you know our team is Actually most of us are actually you Know ex Google search Engineers so that Was actually core part of our product From day one and it allowed us to Actually build a smarter search engine Which was not keyword based you know it Just matches a few keywords in your Question like the documents we could Actually do semantic and conceptual Matching of people's questions with you Know the company knowledge using these Language models so we've been you know Using these language models we were the First company to actually build Vector Search and embeddings you know these are The terms that you hear these days in The AI world so we're working on these From from the beginning now a few things Like you know one if you think about AI The AI technology has actually made so Much progress over the last 5 years you Know just keeps getting better and Better the first we actually leverage Those to actually use the advancements In technology to make our product better So think about you know again our Product like when we started with a Product you could come in and ask a Question and we'll point you to the Right good documents that you looking

For think about your intention you Actually you have a question you're Actually just looking for an answer to That you're not actually looking for Like a list of documents right so as These language models got better you Were actually able to use them to Extract answers from your knowledge so They were not good enough to generate But they were good enough to extract so We use these language models and Sometimes when you ask a question in Glean we would be able to actually show You the answer on on the top of our Search results page and that would be an Extracted human generated answer that The language model pulled you know from Your knowledge but then the language Model kept getting better and better and And now it could actually answer more Complicated questions and it would Actually read a longer like you know 10 Page document and actually synthesize And generate an answer from it so it's Sort of a Natural Evolution for us like As this technology got better our Product got better with it so that's Actually you know has proved to be very Very helpful for us cuz you're now clean Today goes beyond like you know it Doesn't work like Google for your work Space anymore it works like chat GPT Where you can come and ask get questions We're going to answer those for you the

Ai ai technologies have been super Helpful for us in terms of making our Product better over time and I think for Us like as a team we have that mindset Where we always asking our Engineers to Just keep looking outside don't be Inwards don't actually drink the Kool-Aid and just celebrate your own Technology like can always look for What's happening outside and be ready to Throw stuff and actually embrace what You actually better from open domain and From the industry so that sort of Culture has actually you know has served Us well and we've been able to take Advantage of these market trends and Then the second thing that I would say Which is actually also like has been Very beneficial for us as a company is That remember we were talking about like How nobody really cared about what we Were building and neither the investors In some sense nor the customers this was A niche play like it was a Evangelical Play we had to actually go and really Convince leaders and only people with Super high conviction in the space like Us were the ones who we could actually Go and sell the product to it was very Much a market creation play but it Actually all changed you know with the Advent of this AI Revolution that we are In now the market has changed now and Now today like you know if you think

About every business they're all Thinking about how we can Embrace AI so That it can stay relevant for the future And as part of that if you think about The CIO or the CEO of a company what Comes to your mind first when you think About AI I bet it's a tool like chat GPD Right right so everybody inside the Enterprise they're looking for something Like Chad GPD but a Chad GPD that's Built for their company for their Knowledge and luckily you know that's Exactly what green is and so our Opportunity has changed from where we Had to go and evangelize our product and Convince people to now we have a product That actually everybody wants so there's The market demand and has allowed us to Actually grow our business much faster In the last two years and one thing I Wanted to ask you about the model too Thinking about how you guys have Continued to ramp up the AI technology You guys are using I am curious how do Your models learn you're selling this to Companies they're using it within their Own internal structure sounds more Intense than it is but like the dark web Sites that companies use internally and Things like that how does it learn like Do you have it learn in the way like a Chat gbt was it just takes in the Feedback and keeps building on itself or Is there more of a stop Gap there more

Of a review process because it is Potentially sensitive information within A company or how do you guys think about Training the models and having them Continue to grow yeah really good Question so there are two different Techniques that we use the first one we Take all the knowledge in the company That we deem to be safe knowledge that Is actually meant for the company in a Broad sense think about documents you Know that everybody in the company can See so we actually take a subset of your Company knowledge that we think is safe Safe to use and then train models with Those and so these models then are Actually learning your Enterprise Language your lingo your code word and Sort of gets smarter with that so it Actually now has understanding of like All of the key Concepts inside your Company and it uses that knowledge then To actually answer questions in a much Better way but the second thing that we Do is we also use a rack style Architecture where the models that we Train are typically smaller they're not Actually good for Generation they're Actually good more for matching Knowledge and with questions so when it Comes time to actually generate an Answer using AI we actually use outof The Box models like gemini or gbd4 or Claw and here what's happening is that

You know you come and ask a question and We'll use our core search technology to Assemble the relevant pieces of content From within your company which is safe In fact which is safe in the sense that If I come and ask a question it's only Going to pull knowledge that I have Permissions for within the company so The search engine is actually doing the Job of taking a question and assembling Some relevant pieces of information and That's where we use our privately Trained models now but once the search Engine has done its job and actually Given maybe two or three Documents or paragraphs then we'll just Use a standard model like gp4 and tell It that hey here's a question I want you To work on this particular piece of Knowledge that I pulled together and Answer that question for me so that's The architecture but you're absolutely Right that's a really good question that In an Enterprise so much of the Knowledge is actually private not Accessible to everybody inside the Company you can't just go and blindly Train models on all of your company Knowledge I was just thinking I was like I don't even know what I would do if I Was using this and the AI like Hallucinated something about my vacation Time question and I would just get like Gas lit by my internal company system

But it sounds like that thankfully will Not happen Yeah more from this conversation right After a quick Break I wanted to know about I guess the Cyber security elements of this I Imagine perhaps you built out your own But also if companies are in charge of Their own if they have their own glean Does the cyber security fall on them or Is that more of a you yeah so it's a Good point like security is is such a It's a really really important Consideration for companies especially You know as they start to roll out AI Technologies because AI Technologies are Very powerful but they're actually Working on your data and you have to Like make sure that first of all that Your data doesn't leave your Environments right you don't want like Public models to train those models on Your private company data so that's one Of the most basic things that you have To do and so like the green you know we Sort of give that guarantee to our Customers that when the green models are Training inside their environments and Inside our customers environments and Training on that that none of that data Is ever going to leave their premises But when it comes to security there are A lot of other interesting problems I'll Give you one example or two you have to

Actually build a safe and secure and Responsible AI experience let's say I go And ask a question inside the company Like you know what's Becca's salary and Like you know I should really not have Access to that information like you know It's not of my business I hope not right So if you sort of Imagine like if you Took all of your company's data and Knowledge and actually put them into a Model and then let everybody in the Company go and ask questions to that Model well it's going to answer that Question for me then right because Somewhere of course like inside the Company there's a document that lets What your salary is so you have to be Careful like you have to build these AI Products with that permissions and Governance in mind so you have to Understand that in fact like 90% of your Company knowledge is actually priv in Nature you know it's only a few Employees can access that information so When you come in glean and you ask a Question it actually knows who you are It knows what content you can access Within the Enterprise and it's only Going to use that knowledge to answer Questions for you so that's that's Another element of security that you Have to actually solve for your Customers and so we do it that way and Then finally I would say that you know

Even that is not enough you know what Happens typically in companies is that Over the years a lot of knowledge has Been created some of it is actually Protected properly like for example you Write a Google doc and you make sure That if it is sensitive that only you Know you keep it private with you or Share with like a few other people but People make mistakes and you often have Like more sensitive documents in the Company which they accidentally may have Shared with the entire company now in The world before AI nobody could find Anything anyway as you were talking About so it was not a problem but in the New world with AI like it's so easy to Ask questions and AI does the work of Finding the right knowledge for you so You have to actually also think about Security more fundamentally like we have Quite a few of our customers where they Deployed glean and actually got scared When they saw what it does cuz they Could ask questions and answering Questions even though we were safe they We properly respect permissions people Were finding sensitive documents you Know which were over shared within the Company and so we actually also like you Know solve those problems for them but Cyber security is actually one of the Key pillars when you think about AI you To think about security first before you

Think about rolling out AI inside your Company and I wanted to switch gears Just a little bit because we've talked Throughout the conversation about the Fact that of course you were a Founder At rubric as well starting your second Company we so talk to Founders who Didn't exit the company before starting The second one but I'm curious like what Knowledge what experiences what did you Bring from rubric over to glean Especially as a Founder as someone in a Leadership role and what did you do at Rubric that you were like you know I'm Going to approach this differently the Second time around so one thing that I Learned from rubric was that product Rules I'm engineer by training so to me I've always felt that hey building a Product is easy building a business is Hard selling a product is hard because I've never done it I don't know how to Do it so I always had that anxiety when I was at rubri I was building a product But like why would anybody care about This product why would anybody go and Buy it and so all my stress was around Those business topics but then as we Build the product ultimately I realized That that's the only thing that matters Everything else actually falls in place So when we started blean like I didn't Have that we just kept that focus on Build the best product and everything

Else and the company is going to fall in Place the other thing you know which These are these are obvious things I Feel like you know building a startup is Fundamentally about just you know Building your team that's your only role Like my role as a CEO is to just build The right team I don't have to do Anything else and so building a really Good engineering team building a really Good go market Team all of our focus is On that when we started glean we would Spend a lot of time trying to find People who were really really passionate About the problem that we were solving And were accomplished engineers and we Buil really strong foundation with them And so those are some of the learnings You know from rubric days one of the Things which we did differently at GLE Relative to rre again because every Company is different every Market is Different I felt that culture– wise Rubric was a great business success but We actually grew very fast we made a lot Of Revenue we would always in the Company celebrate that business success And we rarely celebrated product success And I think that sort of like created This culture of you know you create Momentum through business success and The product passion sort of takes the Backseat and if you have a moment or a Time when like maybe business is slow

Economy is slow I sometimes I felt we Were a little bit low on how connected People felt with our product with our Company cuz we didn't talk about it as Much so at G that's one of the things That we've changed we really focus on Making it all about our product and the Problem that we're solving and our Celebrations are almost never about a Big deal that we sold you know we don't Talk that much about that our Celebrations are about the great Problems that we solve for our customers Celebrate like the create quotes or the Appreciation that customers give to us On our product so we sort of kept it Very much about that and and the way we Hire also a big part of like how we Select people at Green is we are looking For for not just a really really good Engineer for example but we're looking For somebody who's actually equally Interested in building and solving this Problem as we are and the product Passion is actually the first thing that We look for we really want somebody who Faces this problem of course we know Everybody faces this problem but we want To actually hire people who are so Frustrated and bothered by this problem Today that they just really really want To come and solve it and I think that's Sort of what creates you know that sort Of really the passion and connection in

The company for us and I know going from Rubric to glean you're a founder of both Companies but remind me you were not the CEO at rubric yes I wasn't at nr&d yeah Right so switching that type of a Leadership role what was that like I Mean you were founder at the other Company of course you had a say in Things but that's a very different role Than being the CEO yeah how how was that I mean like you know it's it's a Learning experience so like you know I Go in and I've never been a CEO so I'm Clueless and I know that but I have the Attitude that okay like we're going to Go figure it out and I think it's Somewhat easy in some sense you know for Somebody to be the R&D leader or an Engineer and start a company because if You think about the Journey of a company Even though I'm the CEO on day one like What am I doing in terms of my job first To build a product so like sort of it's A smooth transition cuz even though I'm The CEO like I'm still focused on Initially just building the team and Actually in fact building the product I Actually wrote code as well like you Know even though I was a CEO at Green as Well and then slowly and steadily like You actually figure out new things that You not done before like for example Like now I need to go and talk to a few Customers and I should try to convince

Them that hey like you know buy the Product from us I've never done that I've never sold anything before but you Get your time to sort of go and learn Each one of those new skills I felt it Was actually quite smooth for me and It's the same way like I'm not done I Don't think actually I've learned much About being a c like maybe I'm at a 5% Mark or a 10% Mark in that Journey right Now you because we have a long journey Ahead for us at clean knowing that you Guys are so product focused how would You describe how you hire how you lead The team how you do those aspects of Being a CEO as well people talk about Being product L often but the way you've Talked about being like product obsessed Product that's how we celebrate Milestones and things is not a narrative We've actually really come across so I'm Definitely curious kind of like how Would you describe your leadership style When you are approaching things like With that lens in mind so my leadership Style I think I think I'm only doing one Thing which is I'm just trying to hire Really smart leaders and I'm just hoping That they're going to just do everything That they need to do I don't like the Model of like helping a leader for Example I don't think I can really help Any one of my direct reports as an Example so imagine like as a CEO I would

Have somebody who can lead engineering I Have somebody who can lead product Somebody who can lead sales marketing HR Or legal and guess what like you know I Really don't know anything about any one Of those functions except for Engineering and product so with that Said I think the only model that I feel Like a scalable is where we get really Good people who know how to do that Stuff and then let them just do that Stuff and be there mostly as a sounding Board so that's the model that I feel Like you know is the only workable model And so I actually in fact you know I Tell my leaders that when we hire them I Actually tell them that look this is Going to be our model where you will Take full responsibility of your Function And I will have no role to play in that At most like you I can be sounding board To you and I'm not going to be in the Business of evaluating you either I Don't like evaluating any one of my Leaders I'm just go with that hope that Everything is going to be great and that That's my mindset and then you see like How it goes and generally like you know I think things work well for us you know We have leaders who are capable who have Done a great job they function and they Run it independently so that's the model That I I like to follow like you know

Sometimes of course like it's not it's Easier said than done you also have Anxiet and sometimes you actually meddle A little bit too much so I do get those Complaints you know from my leaders that Hey like you know you talk about being You know you don't want to do anything In my function but then you actually do Come in and share opinions and things Like that so yeah so it's a fine balance But at least like the not star for me From a leadership perspective is that we Have independent leaders who run the Company together and my role is actually Very limited in that sense my role is Limited to just making sure that we can Bring those people in and I feel like I Have to ask this I don't know if I Should so in terms of what's next for The the company I guess the general Question is what's next but have you Thought about maybe if you want to IPO This or you know exit it like what are Your long-term Visions for glean so First of all I think we are very very Early in our journey I already told you What our product is supposed to do our Vision is think of glean it's going to Actually in the future the way we work You know it's going to fundamentally Change for all of us our goal is that in A few years from now 50% of the work That you do today Yourself clean is Going to do that work for you is going

To be that personal assistant that we're Going to bring to every single person Who works and is going to take that Majic work away from them so to get to That that's actually a hard problem so We'll keep working on it so we have no Plans for example from our company Perspective to actually become a Multi-product company you know think About two other new products like this Is the only problem that we need to Solve and we can keep working on it and I know that we can keep working on it For our entire careers and the company Is going to exceed like each one of our Personal careers it's going to keep Going so that's our vision so from that Perspective we don't think about exit at All the company is going to remain Independent it's going to hopefully you Know go public in in a few years but That's again like that's going to be Like one of the milestones and hopefully What we're going to be building a a Generational company with green and that Is a perfect place to wrap so thank you So much for coming on the show this has Been super fun yeah thanks for having me Really enjoyed It and that was our conversation with Arvin dum what was the LIE the lie was That he had zero problems finding Funders for gleen apparently even he Struggled a bit which Becca I know

Looking at how much they've raised now It's always a little hard to believe That people had trouble fundraising at First but when he started talking about How VCS and stuff were essentially like Why would Enterprises pay for this I was Like okay yeah yeah that feedback I get Because it's such an annoying problem But I feel like annoying problems that Aren't consumer focused or customer Focused in general definitely are like More back burner stuff for like Enterprise budgets yeah I mean cuz like As a person employed this product makes A lot of sense yeah but I can see how You know people at the higher ups I can See why people might question it but I Mean once again as a person employed it Has been really I mean it's it's hard Trying to find some stuff HR stuff Sometimes you know like I said before Like I just just don't know I can't find It you just got to email someone and say What am I looking for it really is crazy Too and like we're thinking about it Through our lens where it's like the Stuff we are trying to find is mainly Like handbook stuff and like HR like I Can't imagine like the companies where It's like you have years of code and Years of like internal engineering sop And things like that that you like have To reference and just like can't find Even though you need it to do your job

Like that's crazy cuz like this issue Bothers me a lot and it's like like I Have to look stuff up like once every 3 Months people who have to look stuff up Like all the time I know like it's Actually insane and so I mean that's why I'm glad gleen exists yeah I think you Asked him why he didn't just build this At rubric right yeah cuz that was like My first thought what was interesting to Me is that he left and built this I Wouldn't have been surprised if he had Like incubated it at rubric and spun it Out because I feel like any other Instance I've heard of like a company Being formed in this way it was kind of Like started at the original company and They tried it and then it seemed like it Would work so they spun it out to take It elsewhere so it was interesting to Hear that he like got the idea and he Was like the company I'm working at that I founded has this problem but I'm going To build it elsewhere I love that he was Like I'm so angry be right back I got to Build a solution for my own problem yes Like literally so I guess at first like I said like that surprised me but then As we kept having the conversation and He kept just talking about like how Product Focused he was like they only celebrate The product like they know if the Product's good like everything else

Falls in place which for the most part It generally ends up being pretty Accurate then it made more sense to me That he was like well we want to focus On the product and we don't want to mess Up rubrics product so we're going to Just do it separate and I was like okay For someone who like thinks was such Like a product lens I was like I could Maybe understand that argument from his Standpoint more cuz I would have been Like making a second Revenue stream like Sell this make rubic like have two Software Solutions people want but then He explained and I was like okay yeah Like I get that could be like not always Smart yeah wait the cyber security Elements were actually quite interesting I was just thinking about the absolute Horror of you know Googling what is Everyone's salary and then glean telling You these are the pay Discrepancies and how like absolute Drama would start gleen is a labor Ally The labor Ally oh my gosh no that is Funny to think about though like a Company Like someone training cuz they obviously Keep everything so closed off which is Like how they can keep the cyber Security piece of it in play but it's Interesting to think about a company Going through and being like Dominic Mador Davis access to this no access to

This maybe access no way sure she can Have this it's funny to think of them Picking and choosing like what people Have access to which totally makes sense I know there's one of the wedding Companies actually does this on their Site you can like make a whole list of Like the whole weekend of activities and Certain people get invited to certain Things and don't so it's like Interesting to hear about it in like a This kind of a context but it makes Sense but it's very funny to think about Like someone picking and choosing and Being like this information no you don't Have access to that it's so funny that Like the idea that glean knows like who We are and they're like no girl you are An intern you are not getting access to This sorry I know yeah but cyber Security I'm obsessed of hearing more About cyber security in the realm of Stuff like this cuz it seems like cyber Security like exists in like this Floating world that I don't think about On a daily basis but when the attacks Hit suddenly you're like oh yeah what is Happening to all of my HR data actually Who's like responsible for I guess Saving us no it is really interesting to Think about because it's like not even Just the internal stuff but it's just Like you're bringing in external Software into your like I was saying I

Love that this is the term because like Dark web always sounds like very like Criminal activity connected but it's Like no any private access web page is Technically on the dark web because it Just can't be accessed by everyone so It's like you're bringing in external Software to like your company's dark web Pages that in theory have like the most Sensitive information so it's like not Even like people in the company sharing It amongst each other there is always That piece of like what if someone hacks Glean or what if someone hacks this and That but it sounds like they thankfully Have thought about it a lot which is not Super surprising considering rubric Touches the cyber I was going to say like if I had to Trust anyone with building a company That does this it would probably be the Rubric people yeah just we would hope That they I mean they do know how to Make it stop or we hope we hope the Other thing I thought was super Interesting was him talking about his Transition like obviously this is not The first time he was a Founder but Going from being the head of R&D to Being the CEO was like very very Different roles and so it was Interesting to hear him talk about what It was like hiring and how he's never Done a lot of the other CEO aspects like

Selling the product Etc and how he's Kind of like both learned to do some of Those things but also found ways to kind Of not spend time on those areas he Knows he's not necessarily as Experienced in him talking about hiring Good people and then essentially just Like letting them go until randomly Micromanaging them and being told to Stop is like a very funny leadership Strategy it felt like a very real answer For him to be like I think I'm letting Them go but sometimes they're telling me Otherwise and I'm trying like huh I Don't know what I'm doing like it's Refreshing to hear people be like I'm Trying it I don't he said I'm just out Here he said it's my third day out here Yeah yeah being CEO is I wonder if he Likes being did we ask if he likes being CEO versus the research and development Role he had oh we definitely should have Because how like engineering focused he Is I definitely would be curious for the Answer I wonder if he even likes being CEO like because he seems like very very Product focused and I actually liked Hearing a Founder that was so product FOC he said product is King and I was Like I feel like I've heard that saying Before from so many people and I'm like Okay here's the prodicus king side of it All but yeah I wonder if he actually Likes being CEO no I would be curious

About that too we'll have to have him Back on and just ask him that question Be like hey we actually forgot do you Like your job Found is hosted by myself TechCrunch Senior reporter Becca scac alongside Senior reporter Dominic madori Davis Found is produced by Maggie stamitz with Editing by Kell our illustrator is Bryce Durban founds audience development in Social media is managed by Morgan little Alyssa Stringer and Natalie chman Tech Crunch's audio products are managed by Henry pikovit thanks for listening and We'll be back next week


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