A $700M SAFE, more IPOs, and how one venture fund is transcending borders | Equity Podcast

This episode is presented by invest Puerto Rico if you believe your business Can go anywhere Puerto Rico is the [Music] Place hello and welcome back to equity a Podcast about the business of startups Where we unpack the numbers and the Nuance behind the headlines my name is Alex and I'm joined today by senior Tech Reporter on the world of fintech it's Maryanne hey marann how are you I'm good Alex how's it going well winter has Returned and my baby's been sick so it's Not that bad it's just you know it's Been a long week it has it has been a Long week I second that well but it has Been a long week but it's getting better Because Becca is back with us on Equity Becca Hi how are you I am good I also Feel like it has been a long week long Week in a good way though because we do Have some very fun news on the show Including some updates on the world of IPOs but before we get into that two Things one please don't forget to drop a Rate or review of the show on your Favorite podcast application we do Really appreciate it and we will read Out some of the best of those on the Show in the coming weeks and also BEC up Before you jump in you recently had a Very important guest over on found yes We've recently had Eric glyman the Co-founder and CEO of ramp on the found

Podcast so if you want to hear a little Bit more about their founding Journey What it was like building a fintech in 2015 versus building a fintech now very Good conversation and definitely would Recommend hard agree on all things found We love stealing Becca for Equity Whenever we can but she does have her Own show so we can't take her every Single week but on the Pod today the Three of us are going to get into deals Of the week including Onyx Monto climate Wonder and the ethos fund then we're Discussing an influx of possible Capital Into the world of AI from Saudi Arabia And then recent IPO news and why late Stage VCS may be holding back their Portfolio companies from going public But we're going to start with Onyx Maran A ycb company that appears to not be Dead well yes so Christine Hall first Covered the company last May when it Raised about $4.1 million in seed Funding and at the time I will admit I Was a little bit skeptical of the model That was because they claimed that they Were focused as a digital Bank focused Strictly on providing Banking and Investment Services for high earning Millennials and JZ I don't hate that off Top Mary and why did that initially Strike you as a specious idea I don't Know maybe that high earning somehow Rubbed me wrong it just felt a little

Exclusionary which maybe isn't fair Because you know there are different Types of financial institutions for Different demographics but I don't know It it did just strike me as a little Different anyway they were supposedly Doing pretty well they told Christine That you know things were going well Revenue is going up every month but then Come to find out just last week that They sent their customers an email Saying they were terminating Bank Operations and closing their accounts Yeah that was a surprise and so we took That along with a note all over on the Y Combinator website that marked them as Inactive as indication that Onyx was Essentially on its way out right I Thought oh okay Onyx is shutting down You know that was fast but when then I Reached out to the one of the Co-founders he sent me straight and said Apparently what they're doing is Pivoting they're pivoting from B to C to B to B which I'll tell you his exact Words shifting to a B2B white label Platform as a service model for Community Banks Regional Banks and Credit Unions that want to launch Digital apps built for young affluent Consumers okay I I get the B2B shift it Probably makes more sense I will say That A source told me behind the scenes That regulatory issues may have played

Or role in its terminating Bank Operations I asked the co-founder about This he denied that he said that wasn't The reason he said that this has kind of Been in the works for a a little while And that it was a strategic decision That allowed the company to leverage the Base of existing financial institutions And use the technology it had built to Quote scale in a more Capital efficient Manner my first thing here and I know I'm not bearish on fintech as a category I need to say that before what I'm about About to say but these sort of like Banks aimed at different groups and Stuff like that I still have yet to meet Anyone who uses a non-traditional bank I Still have never met anyone I don't know Anyone whose friends use them whatever But I like the concept of them for Groups especially those who have been Sort of hurt or discriminated against in The traditional banking system but in This case if you're targeting High Earning Millennials and gen Z like Aren't these the kind of people where Traditional banking models actually are Better for them than for Yeah so that that's always my thing also I'm like who my age has any money I'd Love to know I I mean I I was thinking About this in Reverse which is that We've talked about certain Neo banks That have stuff for Less wealthy people

Like getting your payday a few days Early they'll essentially credit you That and then because they know it's Coming in and then they can pay you back And it's it's a way to offer kind of Like a flexible solution to avoid payday Loans for people who might need that so There are innovations that are super Cool the thing that I struggle with is Kind of what Becca said which is these People are already so well served mhm Trying to figure out how to phrase this Like my bank loves to send me things in The mail that are like give us more of Your money and we will give you some Money because they want me to keep more Of my money with them versus elsewhere And so like they are beating down the Door to try to engender more business With me so it feels like a reasonably Served category already and that's why I Think Onyx probably struggled because There's just myate options in the market That are already tuned towards the Affluent the high earning or the henries As they called on Reddit the high Earners not rich yet I think you both Make excellent points I will say though In general that we've seen more than one Shutdown in the space of Neo banks that Were targeting very specific Demographics in the past year alone we Saw daylight shut down last year it was Focused on the lgbtq plus Community we

Also saw cheese which was aimed at the Asian-American Community shut down very Recently so I I think in general this is A tough thing to do we see some Neo Banks doing very well right now new bank Dave for example monzo just raised a Bunch of money but I I think it's a Really hard thing to do to Target very Specific demographics because you have To be able to differentiate your Offerings so that a person feels like It's worth their while to bank with you As opposed to a larger more traditional Bank or even a larger fch Bank yeah and Also the more money you have the more Probably focused you are on Capital Preservation and account safety and so You might have a slightly less of an Impetus to go out there and try Something that's a bit more Niche and New that said my last point on this is If you go after a subset of the market You are kind of limiting your Tam just Kind of by definition so anyways tough But good to see Onyx trying something New we will have notes on them as we Learn more about how their B2B pivot is Going my deal of the week is about a Company that we haven't talked about in A while indirectly which is Casper do You guys remember when Casper was was Like the dtoc breakout story it went Public and it seemed like we couldn't Get away from different mattress based

Companies that was a whole trend for for Years Maryann right yeah it was it was Casper Purple what happened to purple damn I Haven't heard that in a in a minute I Wonder how they're doing they get Acquired maybe that's not true but they They sell them at like Sleep Numbers I Know that so I don't know if they got Acquired by them but they're definitely Doing like retail too well Casper did go Public it did not have a great time as a Public company but the co-founder of the Company Philip Crim is back and he's Working on a new thing it's an incubator Not an accelerator called Monto climate And it just raised about $8.5 million And the idea here is something akin to The startup Studio model so instead of Raising a bucket of capital and then Doing it out to Founders for shares in Return they are going to work on their Own ideas and then once something is Kind of going well bring in external People to run those businesses and then Raise traditional Venture Capital this Is not the first time we've seen this Model but it is I think in my experience The first time we've seen this appli to The realm of climate Becca is anything Else come to mind as an example in that Area no I think you are right because This definitely isn't a particularly new Strategy but I think in the climate

Space you are right to say that nothing Comes to mind as far as anyone else Doing this in that sector so here's my Here's my question because it it's Perfectly fine to make a lot of money in A company and try something new Especially if you have a lot of ideas do You think you understand kind of how how To build companies and how to approach The market given your learnings why not Try to do multiple things at once and Kind of like not just spread your bets But also just have more impact the flip Though is people love to talk about how Founder-led businesses are the way to go And if you have a startup incubator Model and the people who come up with The ideas and do the first incubation Aren't the people who run the business Long term it seems to be kind of like Directly opposed to the common Trend we See of kind of founder first founder Le Businesses and so it it feels oddly Counter not narrative per se but just Like it goes against what we've been Told is the right way to do things and I'm struggling to kind of figure out if That's why we haven't seen incubators of This ilk in different areas become the Household names we've seen from other Venture Capital traditional firms yeah Can you think of any companies who are Born out of Incubators doing really well you mean

Yeah that's my question I can't I don't Know cuz I know there's a bunch and I Know some do better than others but yeah I can't think of like a company from one Of these off top my head I I think that Just goes to show that there's probably Some success in this model in certain Areas but not as much as we have seen From other models I mean we're going to Talk about the Reddit IPL later in the Show but that I think is not even Amongst the first dozen IPOs from the YC Cohorts throughout the years so the Accelerator model does have a track Record you can kind of point to in off The top of your head name names this is Just a little bit different though I Will say given the scope of the Potential climate issues that we are Seeing I'm in favor of a try everything Approach so I don't want to sound overly Negative here I'm more curious as to why This was the method that they decided to Approach but they' built a team they've Raised money they're going to go after Climate and I think that's very cool I Mean why not why not go out there and Just try all the things there's too much Carbon in the air y'all we need help Yeah in the story I mean Tim said that The trio felt like they had plenty of Ideas themselves you know so that's why They decided to go this round instead of Like doing a VC fund and also I thought

It was interesting that of the 8.5 Million they raised about 7 million of That came from one person Shield tile Managing partner at ampo I would like to See how this plays out I think their Mission is Honorable I do think that They're trying to take a different Approach they're not focusing on Problems that require Hardware to solve They are looking at creating businesses That complement those types of companies The analogy they made is that the the Bricks have already been made it's all About you know kind of laying them Correctly and finding the mortar that Goes between them to hold them all Together ER go we've already lowered the Cost of solar production dramatically And improved the efficiency of it so What can we do with that well probably Quite a lot so Monto climate one to keep An eye on I want to bring up one more Small thing from another serial founder Just kind of keeping that theme alive And that is Mark lore now you might Remember him from quiddy which he sold And then jet.com which he also sold the Ladder deal was a multi-b million doll Sale to Walmart now Mr lore is back and You may have heard of his company called Wonder and it just raised $700 million Becca in a safe and I think that they Screwed up because safes are for Single-digit million dollar transactions

Not double digigit let alone triple Digit million doll deals what's going on Yeah that is way way way too much money To raise in a safe in my opinion safes Especially with this whole like hitting Milestone with that much money I mean in Today's market especially this is in a Very very crowded category so tell us About wonders I'm curious why you think That so mainly focused on sort of a new Way to do food delivery I know they Originally were trying to launch a food Truck Network that did not really pan Out there's so many food delivery like Living in a place like I do in New York City where it would be a perfect market For a food delivery company there are so Many and sometimes I pass restaurants Still with signs outside that say you Can get us delivered on this app Exclusively and I'm like I have never Heard of that app so it's just like if None of these companies are doing Amazing like it's not like you can be Like well look at Uber Eats look at door Dash they're doing crazy numbers like The market is so big clearly can have More players that isn't really what Happens in this category so I mean the Food truck would have been a niche that Didn't work out that's fine but Otherwise I'm kind of like what's the Differentiator here yeah just in general I mean $700 million is a lot of money

These days and I too was very surprised To see it raised via safe that just Feels odd Unsafe oh God Becca with the dad jokes I Have a solution though what if we took These two stories and did a bit of a Remix so I'm going to read these Headlines now but I'm going to change The numbers around Monto climate raises 700 million and wonders Mark lore raises 8.5 there we go I fixed it that feels Better more money for climate less money For whatever Wonder becomes shout out Mark lur though for being one of the Best fundraisers in the history of Mankind got to hand it to the guy I'm Impressed that he pulled this off but Let's move on and we're going to talk About a new Venture Capital firm called Ethos fund Becca what's going on yeah so Ethos fund just closed its first fund Which is going to invest in Founders Bridging the Gap between the US and Vietnamese Tech communities so the Firm's about 2 years old they raised $12 Million the fund will invest in Companies in two different ways they'll Both invest in companies based in Vietnam that are really really early Stage pre-product pre-revenue as well as Companies in the US which they're Calling third culture Founders so They've described that direct quote Brilliant Minds who don't just belong to

One culture but have been shaped by Multiple ones solving problems that they Care about I think this is interesting For a whole host of reasons one I love These funds that work to bridge gaps Between an established market like the US and a less established Market say Like Vietnam there's another one I Talked to quite often that is trying to Do the same thing with startups in Poland it's called smok Ventures they Have some Partners based out in Silicon Valley they have Partners based in horsa And they're trying to bridge the gap There and I think that's a really smart Strategy to get International exposure To these smaller markets and kind of Give the Boost that they maybe wouldn't Have gotten otherwise just trying to Homeg grow their own Market yeah one Thing I've heard about this kind of in Reverse is people trying to help other Founders break into the the US market But it's cool to see the US and Vietnam To be bridged especially given that Vietnam is emerging as a place where People are moving some of their Operations in light of China becoming a More difficult country to do business in So to me there's kind of a thematic Geopolitical element to this that makes A lot of sense but I will never ever Ever been happy to see very early stage Founders ra more money around the world

Because that's where the cool ideas come From so I think this is great I think so Too I was surprised though to see that The founders of this firm are actually Korean that is definitely surprising I Mean not that it's a bad thing but I was Just not expecting it so I was like Interesting that they chose Vietnam and Not Korea to focus their efforts on well South Korea has due to its large Companies a lot of I mean just to pick One example a lot of corporate Venture Capital already and so maybe Vietnam is Just a market where there was more Opportunity and that just means Essentially need from Founders for this Type of funding makes sense yeah and I Was going to say too maybe this plays Into a whole third culture founder piece Of this like they're both not from that Country but they've lived in a few Different areas like and they're Investing there but I just wanted to Touch on that a little bit too I love The concept of these quote unquote third Culture Founders because something I've Always thought that was interesting is Well there's evidence here in the US There are firms that just invest in Immigrant Founders there's definitely a Lot of data you can look at big success Stories in the US startup Market that Come from founders with those types of Backgrounds but I've always thought if

You want to scale your company out of Whatever country you're based in you do Kind of want more of that Global mindset Or you do kind of maybe want those Experiences that would help shape your Thinking as you are thinking about an Expansion of course many examples of how You don't absolutely need that of course Not a requirement by any means but I Could definitely see how investing in People who have that background have That mindset to begin with might Approach their company building Differently especially if they do plan To expand down the line and I could see The benefits from that of coming with That approach yeah absolutely and the Inaugural fund is $12 million they've Already made some Investments out of That so ethos fund one to watch we'll See who follows in their footsteps if Anyone because there's more countries Out there that we could bridge between Now when we come back Saudi Arabia's big AI push but very first a short Break what's next in Tech that's not the Right question it's where Puerto Rico More than just a Tropical Paradise it's An Innovations Paradise I where startups And Global players coexist in a vast and Vibrant ecosystem where Talent runs deep Highly skilled and bilingual plus the Island offers the most competitive tax Incentives in the US if you believe your

Business can go anywhere Puerto Rico is The place find out more at invest pr.org Crunch now Saudi Arabia is planning a Enormous push into the world of Artificial intelligence using its Sovereign wealth fund Becca we're Talking about $40 billion here which I Would have said a few years ago is Probably too much money but given how Much we've seen open Ai and anthropic And others raise I almost want to say 40 Billion that's it I know in the today's Market they can make like three Investments I'm kidding but like I'm not Kidding as much as I wish I was I'm not Surprised though I mean the studi araban Government has definitely proven over The last few years one they definitely Want to get more into Venture investing And Innovation and the like in general But two they've proven to be pretty Smartly reactive and kind of following The trends and putting their money in Certain areas that are kind of following Broader Trends in The Innovation Ecosystem you don't always see that to People who come in making these big Pushes sometimes it's like oh we want to Stay General oh we're trying to figure It out so it is interesting to see them Come in with this AI Focus I feel like It's a very if you have that kind of Money to spend it's a smart reaction to Where the Market's headed yeah I wonder

If there's a a national element to this Cuz we're we've talked a lot about you Know like chip production being now I Think that every country wants to have Inside of its borders and so forth I Wonder if AI is going to become a thing That at least regions want to have local Champions for and if some of this money Could go to fostering incubating Accelerating something inside of Saudi Arabia that would give the Middle East Something akin to an AI model even Though I know this money is also going To go into like Andrew and horor yeah You know somehow I doubt that a little Bit I feel like all the efforts are Going to be focused probably more on the Country itself not necessarily the Region as a whole but of course I could Be wrong I do think yeah $40 billion is A lot of money agreed Becca that it Seems like a smart move but you know Also let's keep in mind probably a lot Of investment going into AI right now is Not going to pan out into anything Tangible I mean the information reported I think it was yesterday that coh here After raising oh gosh I don't remember The numbers off hand but a lot of money Only had about $13 million in Revenue Last year yeah they're targeting Multi-billion valuation off of that Right I mean that just I'll be honest With you that kind of thing just pisses

Me off when there are companies that are Like generating hundreds of millions of Dollars in revenue and you know Struggling to raise capital for whatever Reason but just because this is more of A flashy space you know and they only Have $13 million in Revenue but they can Command that sort of capital I guess It's the potential that investors are Backing but anyway is just a point that I had to make so like $40 billion yes a Lot of money but how much of that is Going to actually go into Technologies Or companies that pan out to do Something you know meaningful well one Way to get around the selection risk You're describing is to give it to large Venture capitalists that have a track Record and andon horrorwitz has been in And around Saudi Arabia saying kind Things about them because they are an Enormous potential LP so we at least Know one firm that would like a chunk of This mhm and to bring up the point you Mentioned earlier Alex about Maybe countries and regions do kind of Want their own AI Champion one thing I Think about that is so prevalent in the AI discussion today and somehow could Probably be more prevalent than it is is Just the privacy and security aspects That come with training large language Models and if you wanted to use AI Applications in your government or to

Automate things like that like you Probably would want a local player and You probably would want someone who's Not working with other governments even Though I do know of a few AI startups That do automate some government Processes that do work with multiple Different governments which I definitely Think is really interesting but I could See certain things people kind of would Want to keep it close to the V yeah and Don't think that there were being Alarmist like just look at changing data Residency rules and how those could play Into training of llms and how those Could become regionally specific to a Really material degree uh but here we Have a country that isn't super populous Like say India which is having its own AI regulatory discussion showing up with A lot of capital to make a difference I Am very curious to see who they invest In and then how people react to the Saudi Sovereign wealth fund being the Original source of their eventual Capital and if that will play into Founder decisions but certainly this is Going to be another big year for AI Investment so more money just makes Sense to me Becca yeah and what you just Brought up about who they're going to Back and stuff like that as a good point Because I know I was just talking to Someone over at stepstone and they were

Saying that one of the big things They've noticed from 2023 that's rolling Into this year that they expect will Continue to grow throughout 2024 is that Firms are struggling to fundraise and They firms who have said we would never Take money from not just Saudi Arabia in General but we won't take Middle Eastern Money we just will not raise from that Region are reversing that decision so if This fund goes out to look for managers They're actually probably going to be a Lot more managers in the US who are Willing to take the call willing to take The discussion than if say they had Launched this four years ago Yes yes and there is some history about Why four years ago or 5 years ago is an Important date to keep in mind but let's Move on and talk about late stage Venture capitalists and why they may be Holding back some of the companies we All want to see SEC filings from from Going public Becca you had a great story About this yeah so one of the things That I know has been a big conversation Since the market originally started to Kind of sour back in 2022 is notable People like Hong ton at ggv ventures Were coming out and saying like oh Racing a Down Round is fine like it's to Go at a lower valuation and stuff like That so with how backed up the IPO Pipeline was you started to hear people

Kind of echoing the same thing about a Public listing like we should start Seeing more IPOs even if they're not at The levels of where the companies's Raised their last primary round but the Issue with that is that some of those Companies even if they want to go public They might not be able to chatting with Some VC's some secondaries folks and a Lawyer as well discovered that a lot of Really standard deal terminology Actually gives their most recent round Investors a lot of power and that's not Saying you can put in direct rights to Give yourself power as an investor to Completely block an IPO which the lawyer I spoke to was like you used to see that You don't really see that anymore but Standard stuff like anti-dilution causes Protection and stuff like that like that Alone automatically you get deluded if You start raising money you start Putting out shares for people to buy pre IPO so that gives people that power in a Way that maybe some startups didn't Realize at the time cuz this is such Standard terminology so even if you're a Company you're at 70% of your last Valuation you can see yourself growing Strongly on the public market you want To go public some of those companies may Be being told no yeah the thing that Really blew my mind here is that we have Criticized Founders on this show for

Being you know slow to go public but Maybe we should have been pointing the Finger another Direction yeah I I was Surprised Becca I always learned from You I was a little surprised I think Like you said Alex we always thought it Was the opposite right that the VCS were Pushing companies to go public so they Could get their exit and that it was the Founders holding back so this was really Interesting to me and I wonder how often It is the case I also wonder as a Founder like is that sort of thing not Spelled out more clearly like I can't Imagine like you go through this whole Process of a fundraise and bringing on Investors and not understanding that This could happen yeah no that is a Really good point and I feel like that's Why it's important to stress here with This piece which I I tried to do a lot In the article and definitely want to do Now is just how common these terms are Because it's like we've talked a lot Over the last year about Investors Coming in with say a 3X liquidation Preference or a full ratchet clause or Something like that that's like a very Predatory term whereas a lot of these Aren't these are just things where it's Like if you signed that deal in 2021 you Don't know the Market's turning in 2022 You expect to go public before that Happens the these are things you would

Not think about I mean of course people Should plan for every scenario when they Take new rounds take on new funding of Course people should do that that's Basic business 101 but a lot of people Don't and a lot of people have proven Especially in the past few years in the Startup Market that they maybe weren't Really thinking about the potential Downside cuz how could you after 8 n Years of up and to the right even though We all know the market is a cycle it Never stays going up into the right but One of the people I spoke to to this Piece Alan a over at launch bay Capital Made the good point where he was saying That one more friction around this Happens even in a good Market than People are willing to talk about and two He was saying at the end of the day VCS Have a fiduciary responsibility to their LPS so if you're private strip's the Perfect example here stripe last raised A primary round 90 billion valuation Obviously they're not there yet they Raised or two rounds ago 90 billion Their last round 50 billion they Recently had that secondary sale priced Them at 65 billion that secondary pretty Much proves they won't go public because That round proves to their investors That if they stay private they can Continue to build that valuation back up Maybe it won't hit the 90 billion but if

They went public today people who need To cash out relatively quickly early Investors Etc they are actually leaving Money on the table and that's not Something VCS want their LPS to think That they're doing yeah but you don't Have to immediately liquidate your Holdings when a company goes public so You could hold post IPO and still enjoy Value creation all that's to say is that There's no single simple answer to this Every situation is different but it does Show that there is more investor control Over exit timing than we may have Anticipated and I think you're right Going back in time to people not Thinking this through because back in The day you could always raise more Money at a higher price so who cares About this set of terms when you're Already talking about the next one and Now you know it's kind of oh well maybe We should have thought of that I will Say though if you are a VC holding back A company going public because you're Worried about the price well there's Been some good news which is that we had Two IPOs this week Reddit and AER lab And they did incredibly well in fact Becca we're recording this Thursday Afternoon which we always do Reddit just Began to trade what's going on there Yeah so Reddit I'm looking at the Numbers updating live at this exact

Second it looks like it's about up 52% Last one I'm going to look at for this Exact second is 5183 for the price per Share which is a lot higher than what Reddit went out for also a lot higher Than I think a lot of people expected Them to be able to go public at and did Not expect them to go well going public At this price I'm doing some math in my Head if their fully diluted valuation Was like 6.4 at $34 a share they're worth like 9 10 billion now which means they're Almost back on a fully diluted basis to Their last private round valuation all This is to say yeah all this is to say That uh don't be so afraid you know come On let's go like we just had two IPOs From Venture back tech companies this Week that both priced at either at the Top of the range or above it and had Great first day debuts what more can People ask for I can't imagine right What more we need more more IPOs yes Please drop this S1 fire Ling they take Tons of time to go through and to plan Around and so forth so yeah keep us Working late flood us with those IPOs We'd love to see them at least have a Good reason to work late an S1 would Fall into that but yeah it'll be Interesting to see how this goes from Here because I know even when Reddit had Filed and people especially secondary

Investors I spoke to were pretty hopeful That the IPL would go well like they Didn't think it would go probably as Well as it is currently but they were Like no we have good reason to believe That company has a lot of Revenue even Though it's not profitable they're going Out at a multiple that is much more Reasonable than they would have gone out If they had gone public say in 2021 but I don't know if any of those secondaries Investors realized how well these two IPOs were going to go because they were All saying even if these do go well We're really not sure that's enough to Really open the IPO window but when they Said IPO is going well they didn't mean Popping for 7% no not at all in fact you You wrote a piece not that long ago Becca going through how secondary Markets indicated that a 5 billion Dollar valuation was pretty much where People thought Reddit would be worth and It turns out that uh public markets are Going to public market and everyone at Least for today looks very conservative In hindsight because the key with the 5 Billion valuation is not only is that Something people were willing to buy in At that would also be a price that People could realistically start to buy Into to grow cuz they were saying Obviously if you price too high people Aren't sure they're not going to buy

Price is going to drop valuation is Going to drop so they priced a little Bit higher than that 5 billion range and Seeing them pop the way they are now Means maybe we don't know what we're Talking about when it comes to that well I don't think anyone ever knows how to Price an IPO because either you nail it And it's boring you are a little bit low And it pops too much and everyone Complains about money left on the table Or you price it too high and raise more And then it goes down then everyone's Sad so there's almost like no perfect Way the only way to make it actually Make sense is to wait six months and Then look at the price and then try to Measure how it was priced compared to Where it actually landed early Enthusiasm though is a generally bullish Signal and so we're not going to Denigrate it I just I'm not looking Forward to the did money get left on the Table conversation coming back again Because I feel like we do that every Three years but at least we've had two IPOs this week it's been a lot of fun And guys we got to go but Equity will be Back on Monday Becca tell people where To find your found podcast yeah Definitely you can find us on Twitter we Are just ound you can find us off the TechCrunch website under the podcast Where maybe you are already going to

Catch up on Equity we are there as well And yeah always happy to come on the Show yeah and we will have IPO coverage All over the tech runch website so if You're listening to this Friday morning Well go read techcrunch.com we have lots Of stuff for you thank you all very much Of course we are Equity pod over on X And threads and the techwrench podcast Network is on Tik Tok under the name Tech brunch pods thank you all goodbye Bye Equity is hosted by myself Alex Wilhelm And techren Senior reporter Mary an aeto We are produced by Teresa loans solo With editing by Kell Bryce Durban is our Illustrator and a big thank you to the Audience development team and Henry pet Who manages Tech wrench audio products Thank you so much for listening and We'll talk to you next Time

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